You don't need to say it because it's assumed when you say that voting would have stopped this from happening. What were the conditions that led to Trump even winning in the first place, and why should we have any faith in a political and electoral system that allowed these conditions to arise?
So we're doing the reddit thing where we put words in people's mouths and get mad at them over it. Seems productive; I'm sure that'll bring the revolution any day now.
There's a world of difference between "vote Biden, he'll solve all our problems!" and "it makes sense to vote in addition to doing other political organizing."
What were the conditions that led to Trump even winning in the first place, and why should we have any faith in a political and electoral system that allowed these conditions to arise?
There's a reason I'm asking you the question, and your refusal to answer shows that you seem to have zero awareness of any US political history before 2016.
The rise of Trump is directly tied to the "lesser of two evils" song and dance that has been going on for over a century. Happened in 2016, happened with LBJ in the 60s, happened with the SPD and Hitler in the 30s, and even before that, Engels was remarking on the bullshit scaremongering that takes place every election cycle when a vote for a 3rd party candidate is said to basically be a vote for the right wing Boogeyman.
Voting for someone like a Biden only kicks the can down the road. There is already talk of the Republicans sweeping their way into power again within the next 4 years. They already have a 6-3 majority in the SC, which the toothless Dems couldn't do anything about because of their disastrous 2014 midterm campaign. They're gerrymandering districts unopposed because both parties have set up a ridiculous electoral system which makes the popular vote a sham. Trump is still hovering in the background, with the QAnon hordes ready to crown him for another 4 years. If not him, it'll be another ghoul like a Tom Cotton perhaps.
The Democrats are slaves to capital as much as the Republicans. History indicates that there is no "lesser of two evils" and it is even more fucking bizarre to suggest so, when you have an individual like Joe Biden and his long history of basically being a right wing senator masquerading as a Democrat. The guy voted in Clarence Thomas, despite the legitimate Anita Hill accusations, and even scolded her during the process. Not surprising that it was in line with his own proclivities. That itself had a direct impact on the SC as it is currently constituted. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Unless there is a real and legitimate socialist voting bloc, voting is pointless. Any attempt to blame individual voters is pointless. A clear indicator of that is your refusal to consider maybe voting for someone in the PSL, or even the Green Party. Clearly they were the least evil, no? But you wouldn't consider it because you'll just trot out the canard that it would siphon votes from the Dems, and the right wing Boogeyman will win. So we're right back to square one.
Edit- seems like another poster already pointed out some of these issues above, and your best response was "lul not reading all that". Fucking lib lmao
Lol I answered you as directly as possible. You really do want to have a reddit debate where you just ignore what the other person is saying, don't you?
And yeah, I'm not going to waste my time combing through multi-paragraph screeds that don't even attempt to be responsive to the point I'm making. That's not how you have a conversation. If you want to have a conversation -- you know, where we think about what the other person is saying and try to address it -- I'm all for it. But I've seen no indication that you're processing anything I'm writing. You're just putting words in my mouth and arguing against those.
Here's a simple question if you want to actually discuss this: Does voting in any way hamper non-electoral political efforts?
You don't need to say it because it's assumed when you say that voting would have stopped this from happening. What were the conditions that led to Trump even winning in the first place, and why should we have any faith in a political and electoral system that allowed these conditions to arise?
So we're doing the reddit thing where we put words in people's mouths and get mad at them over it. Seems productive; I'm sure that'll bring the revolution any day now.
The reddit thing would be to tell people to vote, so everything's coming up aces for you
There's a world of difference between "vote Biden, he'll solve all our problems!" and "it makes sense to vote in addition to doing other political organizing."
I'll let you have another shot at it
You shouldn't have faith in electoral politics, but you also shouldn't abandon them entirely to libs and chuds.
I honestly don't know how "vote in addition to doing other political organizing" doesn't communicate this.
There's a reason I'm asking you the question, and your refusal to answer shows that you seem to have zero awareness of any US political history before 2016.
The rise of Trump is directly tied to the "lesser of two evils" song and dance that has been going on for over a century. Happened in 2016, happened with LBJ in the 60s, happened with the SPD and Hitler in the 30s, and even before that, Engels was remarking on the bullshit scaremongering that takes place every election cycle when a vote for a 3rd party candidate is said to basically be a vote for the right wing Boogeyman.
Voting for someone like a Biden only kicks the can down the road. There is already talk of the Republicans sweeping their way into power again within the next 4 years. They already have a 6-3 majority in the SC, which the toothless Dems couldn't do anything about because of their disastrous 2014 midterm campaign. They're gerrymandering districts unopposed because both parties have set up a ridiculous electoral system which makes the popular vote a sham. Trump is still hovering in the background, with the QAnon hordes ready to crown him for another 4 years. If not him, it'll be another ghoul like a Tom Cotton perhaps.
The Democrats are slaves to capital as much as the Republicans. History indicates that there is no "lesser of two evils" and it is even more fucking bizarre to suggest so, when you have an individual like Joe Biden and his long history of basically being a right wing senator masquerading as a Democrat. The guy voted in Clarence Thomas, despite the legitimate Anita Hill accusations, and even scolded her during the process. Not surprising that it was in line with his own proclivities. That itself had a direct impact on the SC as it is currently constituted. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Unless there is a real and legitimate socialist voting bloc, voting is pointless. Any attempt to blame individual voters is pointless. A clear indicator of that is your refusal to consider maybe voting for someone in the PSL, or even the Green Party. Clearly they were the least evil, no? But you wouldn't consider it because you'll just trot out the canard that it would siphon votes from the Dems, and the right wing Boogeyman will win. So we're right back to square one.
Edit- seems like another poster already pointed out some of these issues above, and your best response was "lul not reading all that". Fucking lib lmao
Lol I answered you as directly as possible. You really do want to have a reddit debate where you just ignore what the other person is saying, don't you?
And yeah, I'm not going to waste my time combing through multi-paragraph screeds that don't even attempt to be responsive to the point I'm making. That's not how you have a conversation. If you want to have a conversation -- you know, where we think about what the other person is saying and try to address it -- I'm all for it. But I've seen no indication that you're processing anything I'm writing. You're just putting words in my mouth and arguing against those.
Here's a simple question if you want to actually discuss this: Does voting in any way hamper non-electoral political efforts?
That question is answered in the paragraphs you won't read lmao
I'm sorry if you're completely tunnel visioned because your political consciousness doesn't go back more than a few years
When someone disagrees with you, they never have a point, they're just an idiot!