it's not statutory rape unless it is a knowing act. without mens rea it is an ordinary, noncriminal, creepy sex pest type of act. unfortunately there are many such actions
I believe, in the US at least, statutory rape is a strict liability crime. Not sure how I feel about that, but I'd say if nothing else, something like "they were 17, in a bar, and had a fake ID" should be sentenced more lightly than, say "there's no way you didn't know that was a 13 year old."
Ah you're right. I don't really like strict liability from a moral perspective. Wikipedia says the Traci Lords case the courts recognized a "good faith" defense, where the producers said essentially, look we did due diligence, thought she looked 18, checked her ID, and she still was underage and just lying to us. Precise legislation difficult in these fact-specific cases.
I would lump this under "common sense" type things, but, I guess I can say how I've avoided any such situations (when I was younger, early-mid 20s, as a mid 30s guy now this isn't a concern).
If you're chatting with someone who is a minor it's almost painfully obvious within a few minutes. I've had coworkers in the past who were (apparently) 16 when I was like whatever 23 or something. Just chatting with this girl in a normal way at work about work type stuff and she mentions something about school. I figured she meant college. Later on she says her dad has to come pick her up. Seemed somewhat uncommon for a like 19 year old to get picked up by her dad so I just asked "your dad? Why?" And she said something along the lines of "oh, I don't have my license yet." So I'm like "...oh... so you're in high school then?" The answer was yes, and I just made a mental note then, you know... there can be nothing there besides coworkers working. And that was that.
The story is incredibly awkward to tell in this context of all this shit in here, I guess, but it wasn't awkward at all in the moment. I gathered relevant information in a "normal person" type of way (as opposed to "let me see your ID right now!") and moved on. But if there's any reasonable amount of doubt in your mind... yeah, just make sure they're of age. I can't imagine someone who wants to have sex (or whatever- it doesn't have to be sex. Any romantic contact is inappropriate here) suddenly being turned off and repulsed by the suggestion that they look really young and you don't want to do anything immoral (or illegal). If you simply ask "are you over 18?" and they lie to you, like sure, I get it. But it's ultimately on you as the adult in the situation to make sure you aren't harming a child. That's the law and it also happens to line up with morality in this case. If they won't in some way prove their age... don't do it, I guess? I feel like a Republican like "just say no!" but for real. Don't do dumb shit. These situations can and do come up in real life. People, the young adults mostly, have a burden to be responsible for their actions. Again, sounding like a Republican here, but for real, I'm not going to accept that someone who was lied to by a kid and "didn't know" is really the victim in this whole thing. I understand the argument, I see their POV, and I just don't accept it.
op never said what kind of community they met him in tho, hard to say if there were moderators at all. like if it was an organized party or event then yeah, the organizers should be more diligent. but if it was just like a Facebook group or something, there should not have been any expectation on op's part that the boy was vetted.
That's kind of what my only contribution was investigating. I'm personally bad with faces and by extension clocking people's ages, and the thought of this happening is extremely upsetting to me. That's why I'd never engage in adult activities with any person I know to be under 24 or would clock as a day under 24 (as a 29 year old). In my mind OP's big shortcoming here was not recognizing that weakness in themselves and having a similar policy in place. OP did a fair amount of due diligence, but clearly the consequence of not enough due diligence is so dire that there's no choice but to just have a stricter no-go policy.
but clearly the consequence of not enough due diligence is so dire that there's no choice but to just have a stricter no-go policy.
Yeah, "Is this person I'm considering sex with underage?" is one of those things where ten thousand false positives are preferable to one false negative.
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it's not statutory rape unless it is a knowing act. without mens rea it is an ordinary, noncriminal, creepy sex pest type of act. unfortunately there are many such actions
I believe, in the US at least, statutory rape is a strict liability crime. Not sure how I feel about that, but I'd say if nothing else, something like "they were 17, in a bar, and had a fake ID" should be sentenced more lightly than, say "there's no way you didn't know that was a 13 year old."
Ah you're right. I don't really like strict liability from a moral perspective. Wikipedia says the Traci Lords case the courts recognized a "good faith" defense, where the producers said essentially, look we did due diligence, thought she looked 18, checked her ID, and she still was underage and just lying to us. Precise legislation difficult in these fact-specific cases.
I would lump this under "common sense" type things, but, I guess I can say how I've avoided any such situations (when I was younger, early-mid 20s, as a mid 30s guy now this isn't a concern).
If you're chatting with someone who is a minor it's almost painfully obvious within a few minutes. I've had coworkers in the past who were (apparently) 16 when I was like whatever 23 or something. Just chatting with this girl in a normal way at work about work type stuff and she mentions something about school. I figured she meant college. Later on she says her dad has to come pick her up. Seemed somewhat uncommon for a like 19 year old to get picked up by her dad so I just asked "your dad? Why?" And she said something along the lines of "oh, I don't have my license yet." So I'm like "...oh... so you're in high school then?" The answer was yes, and I just made a mental note then, you know... there can be nothing there besides coworkers working. And that was that.
The story is incredibly awkward to tell in this context of all this shit in here, I guess, but it wasn't awkward at all in the moment. I gathered relevant information in a "normal person" type of way (as opposed to "let me see your ID right now!") and moved on. But if there's any reasonable amount of doubt in your mind... yeah, just make sure they're of age. I can't imagine someone who wants to have sex (or whatever- it doesn't have to be sex. Any romantic contact is inappropriate here) suddenly being turned off and repulsed by the suggestion that they look really young and you don't want to do anything immoral (or illegal). If you simply ask "are you over 18?" and they lie to you, like sure, I get it. But it's ultimately on you as the adult in the situation to make sure you aren't harming a child. That's the law and it also happens to line up with morality in this case. If they won't in some way prove their age... don't do it, I guess? I feel like a Republican like "just say no!" but for real. Don't do dumb shit. These situations can and do come up in real life. People, the young adults mostly, have a burden to be responsible for their actions. Again, sounding like a Republican here, but for real, I'm not going to accept that someone who was lied to by a kid and "didn't know" is really the victim in this whole thing. I understand the argument, I see their POV, and I just don't accept it.
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I'd say a good rule of thumb is, if you want to have sex with some stranger, they should look old enough that you don't need to verify their age.
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op never said what kind of community they met him in tho, hard to say if there were moderators at all. like if it was an organized party or event then yeah, the organizers should be more diligent. but if it was just like a Facebook group or something, there should not have been any expectation on op's part that the boy was vetted.
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That's kind of what my only contribution was investigating. I'm personally bad with faces and by extension clocking people's ages, and the thought of this happening is extremely upsetting to me. That's why I'd never engage in adult activities with any person I know to be under 24 or would clock as a day under 24 (as a 29 year old). In my mind OP's big shortcoming here was not recognizing that weakness in themselves and having a similar policy in place. OP did a fair amount of due diligence, but clearly the consequence of not enough due diligence is so dire that there's no choice but to just have a stricter no-go policy.
Yeah, "Is this person I'm considering sex with underage?" is one of those things where ten thousand false positives are preferable to one false negative.
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