That's all cool and good, but the point is that it's being framed as "if it's not profitable it's not worth doing" while capitalism is currently on its way to boil every single one of us alive.
I’m skeptical that energy storage is really a solution at a large scale, either.
Not to be a technolib but I don't think we've even tapped the potential for energy storage. Lithium Iron will hopefully be seen as caveman technology 10 years from now but even that is pretty fucking hopeful.
I’m skeptical that energy storage is really a solution at a large scale, either
Different type of grids, storage, good load balancing and incentives to produce then are actually good. Plus different kinds of mobility.
Via grid you can transport electricity from the East coast nearly to the West coast competitively even today. This means you are suddenly talking about 10 hours for LA, PLUS 3 hours for electricity generated in NYC.
Honestly talking about solar electricity availability between 4 to 17 o'clock LA time in deepest winter doesn't sound half bad. Esp. if you compare it to 3 to 20 o'clock in LA during summer time. I argue that no one can sensible tell me those time spans aren't wide enough to produce in them.
Furthermore if we go and look at wind generation we see that this can complement the times of high demand or low solar very well. With a super grid that also taps into water, hydroelectric and geothermic electricity and energy you are suddenly at no hour in which not a good amount of clean energy is created. Even with wind you reduce the time in which there is no significant electricity output in the analysis of only PV and wind into a range that can be expressed in quarters of hours.
However in the US you could also reduce the electricity consumption by up to three quarters to facilitate the change even better (if looked over the next 15 years or so).
In terms of storage, there are always also gravity storage solutions, which will store energy for hours on end, eliminating the wholes in supply curves and enabling nice fitting of supply and demand curves. Naturally this would be combined with other storage types, too. (Btw. I mean gravity storage in a more broad way, pumping water is also gravitational storage).
The mix is the solution to the problem, the problem is the capitalist structure of current electricity and energy consumption, infrastructure and interfacing systems.
Energy storage isnt the only solution to this problem The excess energy during the day could be used to operate energy intensive machines that dont necessarily need to run all hours of the day, shifting the energy costs of running a modern society into the daytime. For example you could run a desalination plant and produce fresh water, which is especially useful in the hot and arid areas where solar is the most effective. Other things you could run only on excess power include supercomputers for resrarch or some kind of cybersyn digital socialist planning, hydroponics and grow lights for vertical urban farming, electric trains carrying cargo, and all kinds of automated industrial processes. Another idea in the vein of shifting energy use to the daytime is to largely eliminate night shift jobs. Most nightshift jobs are nonessential and only serve to capture more profit for capitalists. Under socialism it is not necessary for every store to be open all night, it is not healthy for workers, and with some variation of a 4/20/69 workweek it isnt necessary for comsumers either, as they have ample days off as well as ample dayight hours on days they are working. Essential services would still operate at night, and some small amount of emergency distribution could remain open for things like medication in case someone needs it while the stores are closed, but for the most part, you dont need groceries at 3am.
Every power grid has a base load which is always present and peak demand, which is generally during the day. Solar and wind are really hard to rely on for base load because (wind is a bit better because it's 24/7). Some countries can get away with hydro or geothermal power for baseload, but in a lot of the world, nuclear is going to need to play a role.
A big part of fixing climate change is also getting more creative with how we use resources. Heat pumps are far more efficient than central AC. District heating via excess steam from power plants (if you actually build proper cities instead of suburbs) is way better than forced air bullshit (and healthier)
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That's all cool and good, but the point is that it's being framed as "if it's not profitable it's not worth doing" while capitalism is currently on its way to boil every single one of us alive.
I think it's more that it's being framed as "if it's not profitable it's not happening," which is true.
Same thing really.
Easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism, etc, etc
Not to be a technolib but I don't think we've even tapped the potential for energy storage. Lithium Iron will hopefully be seen as caveman technology 10 years from now but even that is pretty fucking hopeful.
There's the liquid batteries that are infinitely scale able that are pretty cool and good old fashioned fly-wheels.
what are those called?
Redox flow batteries really promising tech. China's already installed a couple grid scale ones.
Different type of grids, storage, good load balancing and incentives to produce then are actually good. Plus different kinds of mobility.
Via grid you can transport electricity from the East coast nearly to the West coast competitively even today. This means you are suddenly talking about 10 hours for LA, PLUS 3 hours for electricity generated in NYC.
Honestly talking about solar electricity availability between 4 to 17 o'clock LA time in deepest winter doesn't sound half bad. Esp. if you compare it to 3 to 20 o'clock in LA during summer time. I argue that no one can sensible tell me those time spans aren't wide enough to produce in them.
Furthermore if we go and look at wind generation we see that this can complement the times of high demand or low solar very well. With a super grid that also taps into water, hydroelectric and geothermic electricity and energy you are suddenly at no hour in which not a good amount of clean energy is created. Even with wind you reduce the time in which there is no significant electricity output in the analysis of only PV and wind into a range that can be expressed in quarters of hours.
However in the US you could also reduce the electricity consumption by up to three quarters to facilitate the change even better (if looked over the next 15 years or so).
In terms of storage, there are always also gravity storage solutions, which will store energy for hours on end, eliminating the wholes in supply curves and enabling nice fitting of supply and demand curves. Naturally this would be combined with other storage types, too. (Btw. I mean gravity storage in a more broad way, pumping water is also gravitational storage).
The mix is the solution to the problem, the problem is the capitalist structure of current electricity and energy consumption, infrastructure and interfacing systems.
Yeah, gravity storage is the most sensible, close to zero waste, makes neat towers
We just need to Dyson Sphere Program this shit and built a gigantic land bridge along the equator and fill it with solar panels.
Going to be too hot to live there soon enough anyways.
Energy storage isnt the only solution to this problem The excess energy during the day could be used to operate energy intensive machines that dont necessarily need to run all hours of the day, shifting the energy costs of running a modern society into the daytime. For example you could run a desalination plant and produce fresh water, which is especially useful in the hot and arid areas where solar is the most effective. Other things you could run only on excess power include supercomputers for resrarch or some kind of cybersyn digital socialist planning, hydroponics and grow lights for vertical urban farming, electric trains carrying cargo, and all kinds of automated industrial processes. Another idea in the vein of shifting energy use to the daytime is to largely eliminate night shift jobs. Most nightshift jobs are nonessential and only serve to capture more profit for capitalists. Under socialism it is not necessary for every store to be open all night, it is not healthy for workers, and with some variation of a 4/20/69 workweek it isnt necessary for comsumers either, as they have ample days off as well as ample dayight hours on days they are working. Essential services would still operate at night, and some small amount of emergency distribution could remain open for things like medication in case someone needs it while the stores are closed, but for the most part, you dont need groceries at 3am.
Every power grid has a base load which is always present and peak demand, which is generally during the day. Solar and wind are really hard to rely on for base load because (wind is a bit better because it's 24/7). Some countries can get away with hydro or geothermal power for baseload, but in a lot of the world, nuclear is going to need to play a role.
A big part of fixing climate change is also getting more creative with how we use resources. Heat pumps are far more efficient than central AC. District heating via excess steam from power plants (if you actually build proper cities instead of suburbs) is way better than forced air bullshit (and healthier)