certain vegans are delusional if they think cultured meat isnt the only path forward for worldwide veganism. individualism, like with recycling and climate change, will not convert the world over to being vegan. and you will not be capable of amassing a purely vegan revolutionary army that somehow assimilates or subjugates all other competing socialist armies and chud armies that would arise in a civil war scenario. worldwide veganism simply wont happen without technology and making cultured meat cheaper and easier to produce.
now, the capitalists will likely still continue the old form of meat manufacturing. but a country like china would pounce on the ability to reduce the space required for meat production. and that is why their equivalent of the USDA has already approved it for production and there are already dozens upon dozens of restaurants that sell cultured meat in china and singapore. you can get a small portion of cultured chicken now in those places for 23 dollars.
the current issue is scale, but if you look at the graphs and trends, cultured chicken meat will be at scale and the same price as typical chicken in 2030-2040.
these 'certain vegans' argue against cultured meat for nebulous reasons like 'we have been producing vegetables for thousands of years! this new tech is a fantasy.' despite the fact that many crops are GMOs, have fertilizer and pesticides applied to them, and so on. and those things are necessary to keep the population of the planet fed. new technologies will be required to make mass farming methods ecological, too.
vegans that think this tech advancement is cool and good? completely fine and upright people, i like them.
also, there's a hidden benefit that the tech research for cultured meat helps with organ fabrication research so we dont have to rely on organ donations and anti-rejection medication.
The current issue is that we'll run out of climate before any of this nonsense is viable, so everyone will have to be vegan (or cannibal, if you insist) because mass animal agriculture will become untenable.
My main hangup about it is the body-horror-scifi-nightmare of creating lifeless flesh for consumption instead of just making it easier to not eat flesh.
also you should probably get over the hangup... its not unlikely that this tech will open up huge inroads for personalized medical science. think of the possibilities: you take a blood sample from a cancer patient and then you grow an organ based on their real dna. you can transplant a new organ in, or even more likely, test drugs on the organ to determine the efficacy against a particular kind of cancer. repeat and cancer as a riddle has become much easier to solve.
the possibilities are really endless for this sort of thing and will be crucial for treating many diseases and extending human life. cultured meat as a biproduct is just another way to contribute to the research.
edit:
also they could make fat cells pretty easy and give me big ol fat tiddies
I agree with the systemic analysis but have 1 nitpick and then a slightly different framing overall
these ‘certain vegans’ argue against cultured meat for nebulous reasons
The argument that I’ve heard isn’t nebulous at all. The production of these meats still involves raising animals for taste testing. So they’re not really vegan and that point at which they become vegan is kind of a ship of theseus thing.
And then framing-wise, I think there’s a tendency for some vegans to hear this sort of systemic analysis and add an implied “so therefore I can still kill animals without feeling bad”. And the reason they hear that is because that’s the way this argument is used against them all the time. You get enough reactionaries asking you “you think you’re better than me?” and eventually the temptation will be to answer “sure fuck it yes I am”.
I don’t think that’s what you’re doing here. Just trying to describe a pattern I see in vegan discourse.
for the purpose of the current tech, they use feathers that fall off a chicken. for other animals, they usually do blood draws. so yes, it will still require animals in captivity, but if people are gonna get butthurt over picking some feathers up while otherwise treating the animals very well, there's nothing to be done. one feather can make quite a lot of food too. and it will still be necessary to keep certain animals in captivity for conventional farming purposes.
No, we must take these animals bred for thousands of years to live in captivity and set them free. Domestic animals belong in the wild, where they will definitely live long happy lives and are definitely able to take care of themselves.
Oh I’m not talking about the source of the cultured meat. I’m talking about the source of the meat used in the taste test. It’s more similar to not using makeup tested on animals
im not quite following, are you saying they go and kill the animal to figure out how it tastes? the whole cultured meat thing arose out of research to reproduce organs and cells so we dont have to test products and pharmaceuticals on animals. plus its more convenient for the researchers, the idea is that by having the cells made in lab you can remove a lot of external factors.
You get enough reactionaries asking you “you think you’re better than me?” and eventually the temptation will be to answer “sure fuck it yes I am”.
Well, that's what veganism is, isn't it? People who are morally better than others.
If they could just lead by example and shut up about it, they'd be a lot more effective. But no, they have to tell everyone how superior they are, and in a (supposedly) egalitarian society that's going to rile a lot of people up, even people who would usually be on your side.
To be be fair to people who do a thing to be morally better are better than people who just as easily could but don't, then stubbornly defend that inaction on grounds of 'youre sanctimonious'
certain vegans are delusional if they think cultured meat isnt the only path forward for worldwide veganism. individualism, like with recycling and climate change, will not convert the world over to being vegan. and you will not be capable of amassing a purely vegan revolutionary army that somehow assimilates or subjugates all other competing socialist armies and chud armies that would arise in a civil war scenario. worldwide veganism simply wont happen without technology and making cultured meat cheaper and easier to produce.
now, the capitalists will likely still continue the old form of meat manufacturing. but a country like china would pounce on the ability to reduce the space required for meat production. and that is why their equivalent of the USDA has already approved it for production and there are already dozens upon dozens of restaurants that sell cultured meat in china and singapore. you can get a small portion of cultured chicken now in those places for 23 dollars.
the current issue is scale, but if you look at the graphs and trends, cultured chicken meat will be at scale and the same price as typical chicken in 2030-2040.
these 'certain vegans' argue against cultured meat for nebulous reasons like 'we have been producing vegetables for thousands of years! this new tech is a fantasy.' despite the fact that many crops are GMOs, have fertilizer and pesticides applied to them, and so on. and those things are necessary to keep the population of the planet fed. new technologies will be required to make mass farming methods ecological, too.
vegans that think this tech advancement is cool and good? completely fine and upright people, i like them.
also, there's a hidden benefit that the tech research for cultured meat helps with organ fabrication research so we dont have to rely on organ donations and anti-rejection medication.
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the dream is highly optimized gmos and massive stacked hydroponics farms
i wuld hapily liv in 1 of thos
fuck it, arcology time
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Eat the bugs, live in the pod, own nothing, and be happy.
(or else)
itz not the only bt itz prbly eezzeer yur rite
:shrek: :british-maw:
i wuld eet my own flesh ef it wer grwn in a vat by sciuntists
Unironic yes; I'm delicious.
The current issue is that we'll run out of climate before any of this nonsense is viable, so everyone will have to be vegan (or cannibal, if you insist) because mass animal agriculture will become untenable.
My main hangup about it is the body-horror-scifi-nightmare of creating lifeless flesh for consumption instead of just making it easier to not eat flesh.
also you should probably get over the hangup... its not unlikely that this tech will open up huge inroads for personalized medical science. think of the possibilities: you take a blood sample from a cancer patient and then you grow an organ based on their real dna. you can transplant a new organ in, or even more likely, test drugs on the organ to determine the efficacy against a particular kind of cancer. repeat and cancer as a riddle has become much easier to solve.
the possibilities are really endless for this sort of thing and will be crucial for treating many diseases and extending human life. cultured meat as a biproduct is just another way to contribute to the research.
edit:
also they could make fat cells pretty easy and give me big ol fat tiddies
nothing else is going to happen faster. unless youre in charge of the nuclear codes and we're ready to :monke-return:
I agree with the systemic analysis but have 1 nitpick and then a slightly different framing overall
The argument that I’ve heard isn’t nebulous at all. The production of these meats still involves raising animals for taste testing. So they’re not really vegan and that point at which they become vegan is kind of a ship of theseus thing.
And then framing-wise, I think there’s a tendency for some vegans to hear this sort of systemic analysis and add an implied “so therefore I can still kill animals without feeling bad”. And the reason they hear that is because that’s the way this argument is used against them all the time. You get enough reactionaries asking you “you think you’re better than me?” and eventually the temptation will be to answer “sure fuck it yes I am”.
I don’t think that’s what you’re doing here. Just trying to describe a pattern I see in vegan discourse.
for the purpose of the current tech, they use feathers that fall off a chicken. for other animals, they usually do blood draws. so yes, it will still require animals in captivity, but if people are gonna get butthurt over picking some feathers up while otherwise treating the animals very well, there's nothing to be done. one feather can make quite a lot of food too. and it will still be necessary to keep certain animals in captivity for conventional farming purposes.
No, we must take these animals bred for thousands of years to live in captivity and set them free. Domestic animals belong in the wild, where they will definitely live long happy lives and are definitely able to take care of themselves.
Oh I’m not talking about the source of the cultured meat. I’m talking about the source of the meat used in the taste test. It’s more similar to not using makeup tested on animals
im not quite following, are you saying they go and kill the animal to figure out how it tastes? the whole cultured meat thing arose out of research to reproduce organs and cells so we dont have to test products and pharmaceuticals on animals. plus its more convenient for the researchers, the idea is that by having the cells made in lab you can remove a lot of external factors.
Oh I see. I’m talking about commercially available versions of this. Maybe I’ve mixed up two kinds of meat alternative, in which case I’m sorry
Well, that's what veganism is, isn't it? People who are morally better than others.
If they could just lead by example and shut up about it, they'd be a lot more effective. But no, they have to tell everyone how superior they are, and in a (supposedly) egalitarian society that's going to rile a lot of people up, even people who would usually be on your side.
lol no
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There’s a difference between doing morally preferable things and being smug and performative about it, so no
To be be fair to people who do a thing to be morally better are better than people who just as easily could but don't, then stubbornly defend that inaction on grounds of 'youre sanctimonious'