YEAH I'M A TANKIE. AND?Follow my Twitch: https://twitch.tv/BadEmpanadaSupport me on Patreon: https://patreon.com/BadEmpanadaMain Channel: https://youtube.com...
When was he ever on that? All I remember is is video on Xinjiang that came to the conclusion of "china does some bad things sometimes", which seems like an entirely reasonable take
That's not a reasonable take here. People here lost their shit over the take that "maybe detaining people because they have a beard which is a telltale sign of being a CIA agent muslim terrorist is not so good".
Keep going. At roughly the halfway point he flips and finds evidence to the contrary of China's wrongdoings and comes upon a pretty reasonable conclusion imo
And I don't say "china stan" as if china is bad, by the way, I think China is obviously far better than the USA, and it's system, y'know, isn't great in terms of social progression, but it's something that capitalist countries should seek to replicate
He then goes on to say that he doesn't support China, critically, because he doesn't support any countries, despite thinking some are better than others.
Is that really that bad of a take? Sounds fine to me.
He really is living rent free in your head. That's not remotely his position dude. You decided for yourself that its an "all states are bad" mentality. No its more than he is a history student whose not part of an org and who is not a citizen of Cuba. His push back was on the idea of his personally "supporting" because generally online western lefties have a fetish for "support" that amounts to flags in bios or their party of 10 people saying DPRK good. I have no clue how you got "no no no I don't critically support Cuba, how dare you" from essentially "my opinion or preference does not actually offer real support so its irrelevent".
People really badly want liking a nation or leader to mean they are involved in something, but no support reall ought to actually mean organizing in the given country, or doing serious work for their cause. Not just liking a country. its not idealist, its literally realism, not having a high opinion of your preferences. He has said before that he wishes he had an actor to read his scripts because he loaths the idea of people watching for him or wanting/thinking about his view as if it is anything special. This is a consistent thing he stresses, he is there to present historical information and translate shit and leave the rest to YOU. Not proclaim his support or opposition to X,Y,and Z.
Dislike his work all you want, but least try to be honest about it instead of constructing a nonexistent stance to complain about. We could use a bit more realism about our preferences in leftist nations and the like. Liking Cuba, rigorously debunking claims against Cuba, defending Che don't make your "support' for Cuba exactly meaningful. Even less so for the rest of us. I think it is a bit unhealthy that we essentially lessen what support means to include ourselves in it. It really should mean actual party members, citizens, and people in like the Irish/Cuban solidarity organization, not just an online person personally approving of them. I treat Fidel as probably my compass in terms of how communism must be carried out in the modern day, he is my main influence, but I wouldn't say i "support Cuba" because I feel that is presumptuous and overselling my solidarity as something more important than it is. We need to humble ourselves
You didn't respond to what was commented, you extrapolated a nonexistent stance about states being not perfect enough for supporting and decided that was in there. Why are you being smarmy over your own inability to respond to something without creating an additional epistemic theory for them to possess in your mind? Literally only you decided that it had to do with "all states are bad" and then created ** fictional exchange** so you can dunk on pretend anarchists. You didn't even try in the first place, no investigation, no right to speak. you realize Bad Empanada has in depth videos on Cuba, debunking slander against it right? Almost like the comment has nothing to do with disliking states on principle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXBYlC4-0bQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sReF9RBVHs&t=4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM7_wTqDUCU
is literally the same as
“Stop right there, that’s all I need to know. No, I do not support Cuba, even critically.”
You come off as bitching about strawmen anarchists who don't support anything with the word state. it is bad out of context, and I don't know why the OP clipped the quote that way, but who the heck looks at that and creates a whole "states are bad so if a thing is a state I refuse to support it" person? Pretty sure he does more qualitative good in terms of Cuba than most of us here, but yeah he doesn't tout himself as a "supporter" so he must hate Cuba cause it is a state. :brainworms:
If you would like to try again now with rudimentary reading comprehension and without imaginary sectarian opponents, feel free
This isn't what he said in the part I was pointing out though. I agree that this take that you are quoting isn't bad by any means and is somewhat reasonable even if I don't agree. Saying "there's a spectrum of what these people call tankies and it goes from anyone with a material critique of society to random china stans genocide deniers...". I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt I thought his previous video on China that you referenced is fine, but "china stans genocide deniers" is a bad look.
He acknowledges that there’s no genocide by the established legal definition. He seems to be supportive of the idea that there could be potential “cultural genocide” or cultural destruction though. It seems reasonable to assume at this point that the Xinjiang government likely overreacted with its counter-terrorism/anti-Salafi extremism/anti-separatism campaign and had at least some false positives, but even the claim of cultural genocide comes off as a reach at this point that relies on lots of wild speculation from westerners, poor and biased sources/translations, and conflicting evidence at best.
BadEmpanada is either not aware of Xinjiang’s new bilingual education policy or maybe he thinks mandating learning Mandarin to improve economic opportunity in addition to still learning the Uyghur language is somehow an example of cultural destruction (also a reach). It should also be noted that far-right takfiri Salafism and its foreign ultra-conservative customs (niqab/burqa/very long unkempt beards/bans on singing and dance) opposes traditional Uyghur culture (as Uyghur Muslims have traditionally been moderate Hanafi that don't even observe hijab), but there was a recent rise in Salafi/Wahhabi extremism and terrorism from the late 80s to the 2010s (Salafi jihadism and extremism was a major problem throughout Central Asia during this time and Muslim-majority Central Asian governments have used very similar counter-terrorism/anti-extremism measures). Uyghurs from southern Xinjiang tend to be poorer and more conservative than Uyghurs from eastern or northern Xinjiang. Uneven development, high unemployment in the private sector, profiling, lack of education, water scarcity, poor infrastructure, rising Salafi extremism, language barriers, poverty, and lack of inclusive growth were all problems that got neglected for decades in Xinjiang (southern Xinjiang especially) and are only recently getting seriously addressed.
An economist’s critique of BadEmpanada video: https://archive.is/LJd6A
Uyghur public school in 2021: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EopbwS97Whc&t=5s
An interview of a deradicalization program graduate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57qyMAySYc
An interview with a Xinjiang imam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO2jqDQfeko&t=1s
Xinjiang government response to questions regarding boarding schools: https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202001/21/WS5e264e31a31012821727262b.html
A Uyghur’s nuanced take on Xinjiang from 2014: https://news.ifeng.com/a/20140507/40186213_0.shtml
When was he ever on that? All I remember is is video on Xinjiang that came to the conclusion of "china does some bad things sometimes", which seems like an entirely reasonable take
That's not a reasonable take here. People here lost their shit over the take that "maybe detaining people because they have a beard which is a telltale sign of being a CIA agent muslim terrorist is not so good".
His position is that China is genociding Uyghurs.
Edit: https://youtu.be/cz9ICFDk8Js?t=3831
“Is it perhaps a cultural genocide? That seems very possible, yes.”
pretty sure he explicitly says "I do not believe that China is genociding Uyghurs" in this video but I guess you're allowed to think that
https://youtu.be/cz9ICFDk8Js?t=3831
"Is it perhaps a cultural genocide? That seems very possible, yes."
I'm 20 minutes in and it's dogshit so far. I'll wait until he says "cultural genocide" or whatever
Keep going. At roughly the halfway point he flips and finds evidence to the contrary of China's wrongdoings and comes upon a pretty reasonable conclusion imo
deleted by creator
he says it in this video lol https://youtu.be/89n21U6Q3_8?t=36 He may have misspoke but like this seems pretty clear on what he thinks.
He then goes on to say that he doesn't support China, critically, because he doesn't support any countries, despite thinking some are better than others.
Is that really that bad of a take? Sounds fine to me.
People want corroboration in their beliefs, not a nuanced take they are allowed to disagree with
deleted by creator
He really is living rent free in your head. That's not remotely his position dude. You decided for yourself that its an "all states are bad" mentality. No its more than he is a history student whose not part of an org and who is not a citizen of Cuba. His push back was on the idea of his personally "supporting" because generally online western lefties have a fetish for "support" that amounts to flags in bios or their party of 10 people saying DPRK good. I have no clue how you got "no no no I don't critically support Cuba, how dare you" from essentially "my opinion or preference does not actually offer real support so its irrelevent".
People really badly want liking a nation or leader to mean they are involved in something, but no support reall ought to actually mean organizing in the given country, or doing serious work for their cause. Not just liking a country. its not idealist, its literally realism, not having a high opinion of your preferences. He has said before that he wishes he had an actor to read his scripts because he loaths the idea of people watching for him or wanting/thinking about his view as if it is anything special. This is a consistent thing he stresses, he is there to present historical information and translate shit and leave the rest to YOU. Not proclaim his support or opposition to X,Y,and Z.
Dislike his work all you want, but least try to be honest about it instead of constructing a nonexistent stance to complain about. We could use a bit more realism about our preferences in leftist nations and the like. Liking Cuba, rigorously debunking claims against Cuba, defending Che don't make your "support' for Cuba exactly meaningful. Even less so for the rest of us. I think it is a bit unhealthy that we essentially lessen what support means to include ourselves in it. It really should mean actual party members, citizens, and people in like the Irish/Cuban solidarity organization, not just an online person personally approving of them. I treat Fidel as probably my compass in terms of how communism must be carried out in the modern day, he is my main influence, but I wouldn't say i "support Cuba" because I feel that is presumptuous and overselling my solidarity as something more important than it is. We need to humble ourselves
deleted by creator
You didn't respond to what was commented, you extrapolated a nonexistent stance about states being not perfect enough for supporting and decided that was in there. Why are you being smarmy over your own inability to respond to something without creating an additional epistemic theory for them to possess in your mind? Literally only you decided that it had to do with "all states are bad" and then created ** fictional exchange** so you can dunk on pretend anarchists. You didn't even try in the first place, no investigation, no right to speak. you realize Bad Empanada has in depth videos on Cuba, debunking slander against it right? Almost like the comment has nothing to do with disliking states on principle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXBYlC4-0bQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sReF9RBVHs&t=4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM7_wTqDUCU is literally the same as
You come off as bitching about strawmen anarchists who don't support anything with the word state. it is bad out of context, and I don't know why the OP clipped the quote that way, but who the heck looks at that and creates a whole "states are bad so if a thing is a state I refuse to support it" person? Pretty sure he does more qualitative good in terms of Cuba than most of us here, but yeah he doesn't tout himself as a "supporter" so he must hate Cuba cause it is a state. :brainworms:
If you would like to try again now with rudimentary reading comprehension and without imaginary sectarian opponents, feel free
nah critical support for China is ok as long as it’s actually undying support.
This isn't what he said in the part I was pointing out though. I agree that this take that you are quoting isn't bad by any means and is somewhat reasonable even if I don't agree. Saying "there's a spectrum of what these people call tankies and it goes from anyone with a material critique of society to random china stans genocide deniers...". I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt I thought his previous video on China that you referenced is fine, but "china stans genocide deniers" is a bad look.
deleted by creator
"Genocide deniers"
Hmm I wonder what genocide he's talking about 🤔
Alright I'll rewatch that dumb dogshit and find a timestamp.
He acknowledges that there’s no genocide by the established legal definition. He seems to be supportive of the idea that there could be potential “cultural genocide” or cultural destruction though. It seems reasonable to assume at this point that the Xinjiang government likely overreacted with its counter-terrorism/anti-Salafi extremism/anti-separatism campaign and had at least some false positives, but even the claim of cultural genocide comes off as a reach at this point that relies on lots of wild speculation from westerners, poor and biased sources/translations, and conflicting evidence at best.
BadEmpanada is either not aware of Xinjiang’s new bilingual education policy or maybe he thinks mandating learning Mandarin to improve economic opportunity in addition to still learning the Uyghur language is somehow an example of cultural destruction (also a reach). It should also be noted that far-right takfiri Salafism and its foreign ultra-conservative customs (niqab/burqa/very long unkempt beards/bans on singing and dance) opposes traditional Uyghur culture (as Uyghur Muslims have traditionally been moderate Hanafi that don't even observe hijab), but there was a recent rise in Salafi/Wahhabi extremism and terrorism from the late 80s to the 2010s (Salafi jihadism and extremism was a major problem throughout Central Asia during this time and Muslim-majority Central Asian governments have used very similar counter-terrorism/anti-extremism measures). Uyghurs from southern Xinjiang tend to be poorer and more conservative than Uyghurs from eastern or northern Xinjiang. Uneven development, high unemployment in the private sector, profiling, lack of education, water scarcity, poor infrastructure, rising Salafi extremism, language barriers, poverty, and lack of inclusive growth were all problems that got neglected for decades in Xinjiang (southern Xinjiang especially) and are only recently getting seriously addressed.
An economist’s critique of BadEmpanada video: https://archive.is/LJd6A
Uyghur public school in 2021: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EopbwS97Whc&t=5s
An interview of a deradicalization program graduate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57qyMAySYc
An interview with a Xinjiang imam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO2jqDQfeko&t=1s
Xinjiang government response to questions regarding boarding schools: https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202001/21/WS5e264e31a31012821727262b.html
A Uyghur’s nuanced take on Xinjiang from 2014: https://news.ifeng.com/a/20140507/40186213_0.shtml
Dude don't get people started. I agree, but it will just become one long video essay vs another over shit nobody here can impact seriously
BRO CAREFUL, YOUR DENYING THE GENOCIDE IS KILLING MUSLIMS DOOOOOD. YOU ARE NOW AT FAULT FOR THE DEATH OF THESE PEOPLE. STOPPPP
there were some slapfights on the cth sub way back when (he was NotArgentina or something like that)
glad it didn't make it into his videos