Use to lurk here on, ChapoChat, even posted a bit but took a break from politics and deleted my old account. However I have been lurking again and created this new account. Got into debate with some guy on a community discord server (it's got a chatting, gaming, meme, and even a politics channel) i am in, and I was pretty active on the politics channel, posting articles about US, UK and international politics. I'm a student living in the UK so my knowledge on US politics is abit limited, but I posted a tweet detailing the propoganda purpose of the 'democracy index' that US intelligence toadies were using online to claim Cuba was 'undemocratic' or whatever, especially when the Cuba protests was all in the news months ago however some chud who recently joined the server started gettin pissy about the tweet rightfully stating the US is the cause of most of the world's current problems. He tried to downplay the US embargo's part in economically strangling Cuba and claimed that the Cuba protests a while back were cause of socialism's failure to meet people's demands for food and medicine (though weirdly he acknowledges the US constant destabilisation attempts on Latin America throughout the Cold War, I guess he just does not want to connect the dots to now). So I debated him for a bit (though I was tired and in a bit of a hurry, so I think I screwed up my points), tried to point out how US embargo cripples Cuba's economy and trade, which leads to shortage of food and medicine especially during COVID, but he's persistent. My knowledge on Cuba is pretty limited so I am hopin you guys here can help me out. I know i am basically hitting my head against a brickwall trying to continue arguing with this chud, but the many people on the server are apolitical or center, so if I am just able to rebuke these claims, i am hoping no one falls for this anti-Cuba rhetoric.

I'll post my points, and his response to me:

1. The US enforces its embargo extra territorially, meaning outside of its own territory much more than you might think. The US is the world's financial center, and in order to safely trade with cuba, a company needs to have literally no assets whatsoever in the USA itself because otherwise they'll be at risk of freezing or seizure for breaking the embargo now let's say that you're a big company and you've got to choose between access to the US or to cuba, would you choose the USA the world's biggest economy and its financial hub or would you choose cuba, a tiny little island nation of 11 million people? obviously you're gonna choose the USA. it's crafted with that in mind, and that's part of the embargo's design.

his response: read the original article i sent (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/15/fact-check-us-cuba-embargo-doesnt-apply-all-countries-companies/7954883002/), this matter of other countries trading with Cuba despite the US embargo is all mentioned there. "Only in the 1960s and 1980s was the U.S. able to demand and enforce a unilateral trade embargo against Cuba from its own trading partners in the world," Guerra said. " "The OAS lifted those sanctions in 1975, after which countries closely aligned with the U.S., including Canada, started trading with Cuba.". "As of 2019, Spain, China and Italy were among Cuba's top trading partners. Even some American companies, including Marriott and United Airlines, have done business in Cuba over the past few years, although the Trump administration unraveled several components of the detente pursued by the Obama administration." Unless you dispute these facts showing that US allies, and even companies literally founded in the US still trade with Cuba.

2. Any cargo ship or plane that stops in cuba cannot go to the USA for six months since both countries are right next to each other with only 90 miles separating them. Most shipping companies obviously choose the US over cuba so it's much harder for cuba to even secure transport for its trade but let's say that there's companies who do literally no business with the US at all, they have no operations there no assets there whatsoever, unfortunately the US still targets them to try and disincentivize trade with cuba as much as possible, their executives are banned from entering the USA and any assets that they have there are seized. If you're a businessman not being able to enter the world's global financial and business hub, well that is obviously a pretty big deal.

His response: What kind of cargo ships are you talking about? And if shipping companies are choosing the US over cuba, its most likely cause the US has a much larger economy, but that doesnt necessarily mean they can't trade with Cuba as well? As Mariott and United Airlines and other American companies do? And yes, the US disincentivizes trade with Cuba, but they arent stopped by it. Free trade benefits these companies at the end of the day. Did Mariott and United Airlines or the other American companies have their assets seized?

3. the embargo also specifically targets subsidiaries too punishing their parent companies if they trade with cuba. And what about the US government claims about food and medical exemptions regarding the embargo? well in practice they barely even actually exist they're intentionally designed to be as unclear as possible in order to create legal uncertainty and since businesses are naturally risk-averse most of them simply choose not to deal with cuba at all, rather than jumping through all of those legal hoops and trying to avoid all of those little caveats that the embargo has in it, those that still try anyway can still have their shipments vetoed for whatever reason the authorities decide so in practice shipping food or medicine from the US to cuba is so prohibitively difficult that most companies don't even bother to try and that's intended and it always has been the point of the supposed food and medical exemption, it is not legitimate humanitarian concern, but rather a way for the US government to claim that since these exemptions exist on paper, the sanctions aren't harming the Cuban people, it is a smokescreen.

his response: ", those that still try anyway can still have their shipments vetoed for whatever reason the authorities decide so in practice shipping food or medicine from the US to cuba is so prohibitively difficult that most companies don't even bother to try and that's intended and it always has been the point of the supposed food and medical exemption," Yet, after the Cuban government eased on tariffs and restrictions on the nations that do trade with it, (including US allies that dont care about the US embargo), the protests stopped. The American embargo wasnt lifted, but Cubans became more satisfied with their situation. Obviously, it was because their government listened to them for fear of popular unrest. If every country in the world had a reason to embargo Cuba (which they dont) then they wouldnt have any medicine being offered, which they restricted to their people anyways, because of course, they are opposed to free trade.

4. The Cuba embargo is designed to specifically leverage the USA's dominant global economic position to discourage as much trade around the world with cuba as possible and to punish anyone who dares to even try. the point of the cuban embargo is simply to make the cuban people suffer and destabilise the nation, in order to force people to lose faith in the Cuban revolution and political institutions, drum up anger and resentment (especially amongst young Cubans who did not see the positive changes Castro's revolution brought to Cuba after deposing the US-aligned Batista regime, and hence because they lack this context, are also most affected by economic instability, they are the most vulnerable to be used as pawns in pro-US regime change plans), and use that built up anger to establish a regime change force to place a pro-US government. The embargo play a very big role in Cuba’s inability to address the food and medicine shortage, the protests a while back were about.

his response: This entire understanding of the US embargo as being the reason for Cuba's suffering neglects the reality that the rest of the world still wants to trade with Cuba, and they prefer sticking to the normalization approach of the Obama era rather than Trump's anti free trade policy. But that literally doesnt matter when they restrict goods coming into their country with tariffs. Even if the US lifted its embargo, Cuba would treat it like every other country that doesnt have an embargo. Even if America kept its embargo, Cuba has always had powerful allies like China or the USSR it can trade with, (especially China nowadays ofc), or they could manufacture their own medical supplies, as functional countries do. Speaking as someone who hates China, even they get this right when America has to take supplies made from them (though it wasnt always that way). the people of Cuba hate the Castro regime because of the political repression and the socialist economy, you really think the positive changes from removing Batistas regime outweigh that? Cubans have been fleeing to America for decades (since that revolution you praise) as refugees, not economic migrants, any "faith" in the revolution was lost when their government started repressing its people after taking power. Then you just say theyre all brainwashed pawns by the evil USA and dont know what the real benefits of "the revolution" were. Free healthcare, higher literacy rates, and everything else american leftists praise socialists in Cuba (and other parts of Latin America) clearly havent been enough to keep them from coming to America after Castros revolution was complete.

I don't have the time to do intensive research and I am very scatterbrained and inattentive, so I can't come up with good responses to his.....uh responses to me. It would help alot if you guys could tear his points apart and also provide some good sources too.