So, since coming here, I've been accosted left and right by ML's calling me a Lib for not being a ML. Essentially that's what it's come down to.

My personal philosophy aligns with Bakunin, Kropotkin, and Bookchin. I consider myself an Anarcho-Communist or Communalist, depending on the situation, I suppose.

I firmly oppose fascism and authoritarianism. I believe in direct democracy and the inherent goodness of humanity.

I really thought that I had found a place where leftist thought was going to be welcomed, but so far I have not found it here. All I've found are hateful people who want me to leave.

Like I said elsewhere, it's almost as if they don't want new people to join their cause. Like they're actively pushing people away who could have the potential to learn, and who have explicitly come here to learn and to engage in good faith.

I just don't get it. I feel like our cause will never come to fruition because of these types of attitudes.

  • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
    hexagon
    ·
    3 years ago

    Maybe don’t post stuff from the chud propaganda website foreignpolicy.com, and take what it says seriously. It’s neoconservative propaganda

    Then I would expect the comments to reflect that, and to point out how exactly it is propaganda, instead of just dismissing it. That would be interesting to me.

    You called Stalin a “Nazi collaborator” and proceeded to call other users “fed fash” and tankies".

    Please do not put words in my mouth.

    I have not called other users red fash. I have said that red fascism is a thing.

    I have not called other users tankies, but I have used the term pejoratively.

    Stalin did make a non-aggression pact with the Nazis. That's a fact. In my book, that's Nazis collaboration, even moreso than Gandhi's nicely worded letters to Hitler imploring him to rethink his actions. But apparently Gandhi's the "nazi collaborator" because of his letters opposing Hitler, and Stalin isn't, even though Stalin literally shook hands with the Nazis.

        • Glass [he/him,they/them]
          ·
          3 years ago

          You probably know more than me about pol pot tbh, so I'm open to that. I know about the glasses thing, and that apparently the Khmer Rouge is what no theory does to a mf. I've seen you posting good takes for a while, so generally take you more seriously than Guy_ "I am so sad and concerned that these red fash tankies are rejecting my state department propaganda" Dudeman lmao

    • ClathrateG [none/use name]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      Dude I would describe my ideology exactly the same as yours(ancom/communalist/democratic confederalist) but you are repeating capitalist propaganda uncritically, for example the only reason the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed is that the western powers refused to agree to an earlier anti Nazi pact proposed by Stalin https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html

        • ClathrateG [none/use name]
          ·
          edit-2
          3 years ago

          You don't, but you also don't have the fate of millions of people on your shoulders, regardless of any moral judgement you care to pass presenting one side of the story without the other pushes certain narratives and is disingenuous. You know?

          • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
            hexagon
            ·
            edit-2
            3 years ago

            but you also don’t have the fate of millions of people on your shoulders

            True.

            presenting one side of the story without the other pushes certain narratives and is disingenuous. You know?

            I suppose I can see how someone could interpret it that way. That wasn't my intention.

      • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
        hexagon
        ·
        3 years ago

        Hexbear is pretty US-centric, as English forums are, but do you think there are zero Chinese users? “You’re an X” and “that guy who says you’re an X is right” are the same. As far as I am concerned this violates the rule.

        Look - if someone told me that the US was a fascist state, I would agree with them. I wouldn't take it personally. Neither should any Chinese user.

        Yes, although the US and the USSR both traded with the Nazis as long as they could, the USSR actively helped occupy Poland. Handshakes don’t matter; killing resistance fighters does, in spite of extenuating circumstances.

        Exactly. I'm with you there.

        We have better things to do than fight about 80-year-old actions of a state that’s been dead for 30 years.

        I agree.

    • comi [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      But there is a reason why party made a pact with nazis, and it’s very simple one :shrug-outta-hecks:

      You can’t make your own book of collaboration, and then be surprised when you definition gets you angry reactions :shrug-outta-hecks:

      • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
        hexagon
        ·
        3 years ago

        I don't agree with having double standards. Either you shake hands with Nazis or you don't. Period. I'm not sure how anyone can be "nuanced" about this.

        • comi [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          There is a moral premium in suicidal charge, sure. I for one don’t see value in it despite the purity.

          • LeninWeave [none/use name]
            ·
            edit-2
            3 years ago

            No, you see, Stalin should have thrown even more Soviet Citizens into the blender in a move that absolutely would not have achieved anything positive. Strategy and practical politics are worthless, everything can and should be done from the comfort of a nice, plush armchair.

            In any case, this isn't the place to discuss this, so I'm going to be going. :mao-wave:

            • comi [he/him]
              ·
              edit-2
              3 years ago

              I don’t think you are a dummy :meow-hug:

              Ussr had expected battle readiness of 1942-43, this was known, pff, in 36-38 to party. After unsuccessful shenanigans in spain, they’ve tried to approach france/uk to make an alliance against hitler, possibly over sudetenland annexation (?don’t remember exact time table). As they were tod to jog on, and Britain signed non aggression pact of their own, what choice did they have to stall for war? They’ve made amends/stalled, made ridiculous propaganda at international, and inside the country to appear going along

              Divided poland, blah blah. They have hoped for invasion in 1942, as in 1941 prime invasion time was in april, Germany missed it, and ussr thought great, we have a year, just according to plan. Alas hitler was not very rational :vivian-shrug:

                • comi [he/him]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  Meh, poland russian border always was a mess, I for one don’t think “it’s own territory” is particularly strong argument for any leftist

                  • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    A much better argument is that the USSR rolled into Polish territory weeks after the Nazi invasion and actually pushed the Nazis back (without combat) to the agreed-upon border. Would it have been better to let the fascists have all of Poland?

                • comi [he/him]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  internet is not conductive to good faith discussion without at least similar plane of expectations/terms :meow-hug:

    • comi [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Also, as a small tidbit of thinking about fascism part:

      Red fascism comes from fundamental disagreement over fascism nature with marxists: if your thinking is repressive state is fascism, sure, but that’s not all that fascism is though

      state enemies are all authoritarian, therefore fascistic. It’s the product of 50s conservative thinking, and not very good one (to me).

      • curiously, fascism doesn’t apply to the whole usa history (not in popular circles), where you can make a case that usa was and is a post-fascist country.
      • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
        hexagon
        ·
        3 years ago

        Thank you for actually engaging with me in good faith instead of insulting me. I have some questions:

        if your thinking is repressive state is fascism, sure, but that’s not all that fascism is though

        I agree. In my view, Fascism also involves the means of production and exploitation of labor and nationalism.

        fascism doesn’t apply to the whole usa history (not in popular circles), where you can make a case that usa was and is a post-fascist country.

        Interesting. I can see that line of thinking. In my view, Monarchism is a form of Fascism. So, breaking away from Monarchism to a more democratic way of doing things, one could say is moving beyond fascism.

        But what we moved into (Capitalism) is worse than Feudalism because it blurs the class lines, giving false hope to the common people, convincing them that if they just play the game they too can one day be kings too.

        I may be misunderstanding your comment. But I really do appreciate you taking the time to engage me in good faith.

        • comi [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          I think you just have to have idea which users have some reactions lol.

          Main underscoring point is claiming country that killed most amount of fascist is fascist itself is very unpopular opinion, so you’ll get pushback on it always (I think a deserved one). It’s not like you have to use that term exactly.

          But monarchism isn’t fascism, like wtf. fascism is internal process of expropriation by rebelling petit bourgeoisie, lumpen and proles, but expropriation along ethnic lines, instead of class ones. By defining ethnic lines, it has to involve national myth-making, and dehumanization of others, it doesn’t have to have a single leader (although all of them did).

          Monarchism is not fascism, however ethnic violence with the goal of appropriation is very close to fascism. America got there with settler colonialism against indians very explicitly. Like imagine hitler in 1810-70, what would he do differently in usa? What would be different in the end state?

          • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
            hexagon
            ·
            3 years ago

            country that killed most amount of fascist is fascist itself is very unpopular opinion, so you’ll get pushback on it always (I think a deserved one). It’s not like you have to use that term exactly.

            Oh, I definitely get that now. Any criticism of Stalin or any of the other authoritarian regimes is NOT welcome at Hexbear, apparently.

            fascism is internal process of expropriation by rebelling petit bourgeoisie, lumpen and proles, but expropriation along ethnic lines, instead of class ones. By defining ethnic lines, it has to involve national myth-making, and dehumanization of others, it doesn’t have to have a single leader (although all of them did).

            I guess the issue is that that's using the academic definition of Fascism, rather than the colloquial definition.

            The colloquial definition would be something like:

            • Hierarchy
            • Authoritarianism
            • Nationalism
            • Lack of democratic processes

            This is why many say that Capitalism IS Fascism, I believe.

            I've gone a step further and said that Capitalism is Feudalism, and Feudalism is Fascism.

            imagine hitler in 1810-70, what would he do differently in usa? What would be different in the end state?

            Well, seeing as how Hitler got his ideas FROM the United States' treatment of the Native Americans and Chinese, he wouldn't have done anything differently.

            • comi [he/him]
              ·
              3 years ago

              I would be lying if I say it would be super welcome by some parts, but it wouldn’t get people angry. And also, stalin is kinda irrelevant, he is dead. unless you are having a peasant country in need of rapid industrialization, and you don’t want to make same mistakes/successes, either defending or attacking him is, largely, meaningless.

              Also, your definition of fascism is very peculiar, I think even some anarchists would be surprised by it.

              Colloquial definition of fascism is bunch of bullshit (“it’s what hitler did(tm)”), despite hitler being nazi, and much better case studies for fascism being rise of mussolini and persistence of salazar and franco in late 70s.

              It’s not an academic definition, lol, it’s kinda trotsky/marxism influenced one, which I subscribe too, but not some divine truth from academia.

              Re your 4 points: every corporation fits your definition of fascism, why do you think they don’t exhibit same outward projections?

              again, you are using terms with very specific definitions for marxists (and historians) like feudalism/monarchism/capitalism and then get surprised when people with different frameworks think it’s strange. Capitalism is not fascistic by itself (neither is feudalism), it’s horrible in all the ways, but fascism represents a very particular solution to some capitalism ills, in my view.

              How is feudalism is fascism, I’m actually curious?

              • comi [he/him]
                ·
                3 years ago

                Also, small note with hitler inspiration: germany had its own colonies, it was perfectly able to make their own horrible decisions without usa know-how, as they have made them already in other places

              • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
                hexagon
                ·
                3 years ago

                every corporation fits your definition of fascism, why do you think they don’t exhibit same outward projections?

                I'm not sure what you mean by "exhibit the same outward projections"?

                It's all about money/resource accumulation and distribution. Capitalism, if left to its own devices, inevitably devolves back into Feudalism, and Capitalism's hierarchy is almost identical to Feudalism's.. Company Towns have been a thing forever, and the ideal state of an anarcho-capitalist system (or lack thereof) is a Feudal society by another name.

                Capitalism is not fascistic by itself (neither is feudalism), it’s horrible in all the ways, but fascism represents a very particular solution to some capitalism ills, in my view.

                Makes sense, if your definition of fascism is what you said it was. Makes total sense.

                How is feudalism is fascism, I’m actually curious?

                Feudalism is fascism (according to my definition of fascism) - authoritarian rule, nationalism, suppression of dissent, etc.

                • newdude101 [he/him]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  This reply made me make an account after a long time lurking.

                  How old are you? The way you type gives off major vibes of either being extremely immature or being a wrecker.

                  You need to do a lot more research before you comment the way you do friend, even in this latest reply you show evidence of having no clue what you're saying. How does feudalism display nationalism if the nation state didn't exist during the feudal epoch?

                  You're asking a community to give you a level of respect that your behavior so far doesn't command, might seem harsh friend but you need to realise this.

                  • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
                    hexagon
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    How old are you? The way you type gives off major vibes of either being extremely immature or being a wrecker.

                    I'm 40.

                    LOL. Why is it always the same old shit? Kids accusing their elders of being kids?

                    In fact, I'm willing to bet that the ONLY people who use this line of ad-hominem are under 35. How old are YOU, kid?

                    How does feudalism display nationalism if the nation state didn’t exist during the feudal epoch?

                    Sigh. Again, you guys are using academic definitions for words - as if words can only have a single meaning at all times throughout all ages.

                    What is called a "nation" today was called a "kingdom" or "fiefdom" back then. Words change, but meanings remain the same.

                    The United Kingdom is actually a perfect example of this. It's a kingdom that we call a Nation now, because that's the meaning of both words.

                • comi [he/him]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  I mean paramilitary violence coupled with political goals, the corporations don’t exactly do that, not in the imperial core.

                  Capitalism doesn’t evolve into feudalism, because it’s much more broader than feudalism ever hoped to be. As a feudal lord, the only way to increase your fortunes is land, because productivity is low, then it became take over sphere of trade (mercantilism), then it became owning means of production. Capitalism achieving its ultimate monopoly equilibrium is nothing like feudalism. I think you have very simplistic perception of feudalism (no offense). It was much freer than cyberpunk hellhole of capital totality.

                  Actually in the article/essay I linked to you (as it’s anarchist), they use very similar thought process (authoritarianism, blah-blah), even they don’t go to declare everything on earth fascism lol.

                  :sleepi: now, so good luck with your hot takes (?) or catch some sleep as well

                  • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
                    hexagon
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    paramilitary violence coupled with political goals, the corporations don’t exactly do that, not in the imperial core.

                    Oh, they don't?

                    Capitalism achieving its ultimate monopoly equilibrium

                    There is no such thing as "equilibrium" in Capitalism/Neo-Feudalism. It's all just a big chess match to see who can launch their dicks into space first.

                    I think you have very simplistic perception of feudalism

                    Sure. That may be the case.

                    It was much freer than cyberpunk hellhole of capital totality.

                    Sure. That may also be the case.

                • GalaxyBrain [they/them]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  You're just making up meanings for words. We're not using our own personal definition for words and expecting others to know what we're talking about, we are using words based on what they mean in order to facilitate communication, y'know, like how language works.

            • Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]
              ·
              3 years ago

              Any criticism of Stalin or any of the other authoritarian regimes is NOT welcome at Hexbear, apparently.

              Not true, we shit on the USA literally all the time.

            • sysgen [none/use name,they/them]
              ·
              3 years ago

              I constantly criticize Stalin. People disagree but it's definitely allowed. There's a difference between criticism and calling people literal fascists.

        • Dirtbag [they/them]
          ·
          3 years ago

          I'm glad you're getting more positive responses out of this thread. Most of the time you get back what you put in here, so if you start off harsh, then it's gonna get harsh. If you're chill, then you're gonna get chill.

          One of the ways everyone kind of flags trolls / wreckers is that they act sort of normal for a little while before flipping out and being huge assholes. When we see new users that start matching that pattern a little, people notice.

          That said, sometimes a post gets shitty, at which point I just log off for a while or find a different post.

          • Guy_Dudeman [comrade/them,he/him]
            hexagon
            ·
            3 years ago

            I’m glad you’re getting more positive responses out of this thread. Most of the time you get back what you put in here, so if you start off harsh, then it’s gonna get harsh. If you’re chill, then you’re gonna get chill.

            Makes sense. I appreciate it.

            One of the ways everyone kind of flags trolls / wreckers is that they act sort of normal for a little while before flipping out and being huge assholes. When we see new users that start matching that pattern a little, people notice.

            Interesting. Sorry if I gave off that smell.