• FuckyWucky [none/use name]
    ·
    11 months ago

    The previous leftist government had used complicated currency controls, consumer subsidies and other measures to inflate the peso’s official value and keep several key prices artificially low, including for gas, transportation and electricity.

    Yea devaluing peso from 360 for a dollar to 790 for a dollar instantly meanwhile is such a big brain play.

    there is no such thing as a 'natural' price. every price is artificial. OPEC is literally a cartel ffs. The concept of 'artificial' pricing is so libertarian brained.

    • driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br
      ·
      11 months ago

      A Mileista friend of mine keep complaining about 140% of inflation a year for the past government, but now that yhey had like 300% in a week suddenly is ok and is just the true price of everything. Of course he dosen't live in Argentina and dosen't has his salary cut by a third in a week so it's ok.

    • WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml
      ·
      11 months ago

      I think in his bigbrain libertarian mind, the money market pricing of the peso to usd is what defined the value previously and he decided that the market's pricing is not correct for that of the Argentinian currency.

      By devaluing the currency, it makes Argentinian labor and goods comparatively cheaper on the international market. This is a similar move to how China grew at such a tremendous rate in the 90's - they intentionally devalued their currency in order to use foreign investment in their relatively cheap labor pool to fund the creation of their manufacturing industries.

      That solution probably won't work here, though. Corporations are scared of investing in countries with unstable political leadership that performs brash actions like his. (Libertarian economics cannot account for such beliefs though since everyone must be a perfectly rational actor that chooses price above all). They are afraid that he may unilaterally nationalize certain industries and claim all assets for the state. Or he may rugpull outside investments and say that all profits must go to the state for some amount of time. Whatever flavor of stupid chainsaw wielding antics he comes up with one day is what they will see and use as a justifiable rationalization for not investing in the devalued market of Argentina.

      • FuckyWucky [none/use name]
        ·
        11 months ago

        also China was handpicked by the American capitalists to be the manufacturing hub (cheap currency was a cherry on top). Countries recently forced to devalue currencies haven't had a similar manufacturing boom especially because global economy is doing kinda shit.

        • huf [he/him]
          ·
          10 months ago

          also back then there was western industry that could be offshored to china. whose industry's gonna move to argentina now? nobody else with a significant manufacturing sector is stupid enough to do it, after watching the west shoot itself in the foot. or so one would hope...

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
      ·
      10 months ago

      there is no such thing as a ‘natural’ price.

      Have you seen a middle-eastern market? Of the kind where they bargain. Like in fairy-tales.

      That's how markets actually look in the wild.

      And the natural price is the mathematical expectation of the price you get by bargaining.

      It's very simple and in this particular case "mainstream" economics and libertarian economics get along pretty well.

      • FuckyWucky [none/use name]
        ·
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        no. because the prices are influenced by external factors. i live in a country where markets like these exist and the price is not 'natural' in any way, in an idealized world maybe but not in reality.

        firstly, transporting any commodity (and inputs such as fertilizers) requires fuel and fuel prices aren't determined by such idealized markets you mentioned, its determined by what cartels and oligopolies want it to be. you are also ignoring subsides, not just by the national governments but foreign governments. for example, developed countries provide a shit ton of subsidies which pull down prices in the international markets, without restrictions and tariffs these displace local production.

        there is also the fact that food prices are very inelastic, the seller can push prices very high and the consumer will be forced to accept it because you can't live without food.

        i dont really get the middle eastern market you are mentioning because in reality there is absolutely price discrimination going on.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
          ·
          10 months ago

          OK. Natural prices exist as an unreachable ideal point, but there are no absolutely natural prices in real world. I agree, and, BTW, no ancap would argue with that.

          • FuckyWucky [none/use name]
            ·
            edit-2
            10 months ago

            natural prices can only exist in an environment where every consumer and producer has all the information and is completely rational.

            if you are rich and a vegetable seller who typically charges $5 for a vegetable charges you $10 you are unlikely to bargain as you would consider it a waste of your time and energy and just buy it. is this person being rational by not wanting to waste their time or irrational because they aren't squeezing more out of the seller.

            read this too

      • Dolores [love/loves]
        ·
        10 months ago

        Have you seen a middle-eastern market? Of the kind where they bargain. Like in fairy-tales

        imagine citing a fantasy trope to justify economic policy jfc

  • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
    ·
    11 months ago

    Diaper prices have doubled

    I hate to defend the libertarian, but nobody could have forseen the IDF suddenly buying up the world's supply of diapers for their troops in Gaza.

  • Infamousblt [any]
    ·
    11 months ago

    Libertarians around the world like AKTCHUALLY this is good for Argentinians! Nobody being able to afford goods and services is the cornerstone of a healthy society! I am very smart! smuglord

  • Gabu@lemmy.ml
    ·
    11 months ago

    Who could've guessed that a rightwing government wouldn't solve their issues (which were originally caused by rightwing policies)?

  • stirner@lemmy.ml
    ·
    10 months ago

    Who would've known, the man that made it so people can get their salary in jugs of milk is a complete idiot.

    • Gosplan14_the_Third [none/use name]
      ·
      10 months ago

      A country like Argentina, beyond its meat industry, isn't really a country with a significant impact on the environment - but this will hurt the local population.

      By design even, considering what the aim of the current government is.

    • Gosplan14_the_Third [none/use name]
      ·
      10 months ago

      Venezuela's economic crisis really began after oil prices fell drastically in 2014 and the west used Chavez's death/Maduro's election to increase pressure on the country via sanctions which for example made buying parts to maintain oil refineries difficult. Before that, it was doing about as well, or better (of course, failing to become independent from oil exports) compared to the other countries in Latin America.

      Argentina was already in a crisis for the last ...20 years-ish, but this acceleration of the crisis happened in a week even as Milei backpedaled on some potentially damaging promises like cutting trade with China.

    • AMDIsOurLord@lemmy.ml
      ·
      10 months ago

      Venezueal is a locked country that's sanctioned to hell, Argentina is about to break incompetence records not ever seen before

    • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
      ·
      10 months ago

      Argentina isn't sanctioned at all lmao. Thinking Venezuela is a failure is exactly what the US and its allies want you to think with the ridiculous amount of sanctions. Can't have people see Socialism succeeding.

  • exocortex@discuss.tchncs.de
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    hopefully circumstances worsen quickly enough that it'll be noticable for everybody so that the general public can clearly identify it as a direct consequence of this maniac being elected. If its deteriorating too slowly people might just not notice it as much and might go along with all the coming explanations ( probably immigrants, leftists, blahblah). If there's a quick look into the abyss people might wake up and get into action.

  • library_napper@monyet.cc
    ·
    11 months ago

    Look, theres a lot of reasons this guy sucks.

    Increasing the costs of two things that are causing the most damange to our planet is not a reason to criticize him tho.

    • Dr_Gabriel_Aby [none/use name]
      ·
      10 months ago

      Diapers are straight up more valuable and less dangerous than the phone you type on. Do you like Cholera outbreaks?

      • library_napper@monyet.cc
        ·
        10 months ago

        I assume they mean disposable diapers. Cloth dipers prevent sanitation issues and solve the waste issue.

        But the problem I was referring-to is the catastrophic environmental damage caused by humans reproducing

        • TheLepidopterists [he/him]
          ·
          10 months ago

          Everyone knows what you meant, but it's an ecofascist talking point, and doesn't engender respect for you.

    • space_comrade [he/him]
      ·
      10 months ago

      Diapers are causing the most damage to the planet? You sure about that? Also the dude is a climate change denier so this isn't even a "broken clock right twice a day" thing, it's just purely accidental.

          • library_napper@monyet.cc
            ·
            10 months ago

            No, its a fact. A policy can be fascist, not a fact.

            I dont think funding sex education, free contraceptivees, and free abortions services is fascist.

            • Orcocracy [comrade/them]
              ·
              10 months ago

              It is absolutely not a fact. There is nothing inherent about any human being that causes damage to the environment. It’s what human society as we organize it does, and a very small number of people do an incredibly outsized proportion of the damage. Focusing on things like birth control and overpopulation is a major part of ecofascist rhetoric. It is also very much about punishing a distant other because after all, if you really believed that all human births were inherently damaging to the environment, we wouldn’t be having this conversation as you would have already undone the damage caused by your own parents. But you haven’t, and nor should you for many good reasons! Those reasons also apply to everyone else too.

              • library_napper@monyet.cc
                ·
                edit-2
                10 months ago

                It is a fact. And fascism would be a policy that is aimed at a specific group of people. Its not fascist to say all humans need to curb our reproduction rates to make a better life for future generations.

                • space_comrade [he/him]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  10 months ago

                  Its not fascist to say all humans need to curb our reproduction rates to make a better life for future generations.

                  Yes it is, because the problem was never the total number of humans, the problem is our wasteful economic system. With a rational economic system we could easily sustain 10 billion people, we literally already produce food for that much, it just goes to waste.

                  You're just so brainwashed by capitalist ideology you think the only solution to climate change is genocide, god forbid you try to envision a better economic system.

                    • space_comrade [he/him]
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      10 months ago

                      How the fuck do you think the global population gets lowered other than, at the very least, restricting some people from reproducing? You think people are magically going to want no kids?

                      Also you didn't respond to the part of my comment where I literally say that "overpopulation" is a fascist myth and isn't anywhere close to the truth.

                      • library_napper@monyet.cc
                        ·
                        10 months ago

                        Studies show that when you give people quality sex education, free contraceptives, and free healthcare they have less children. Its not rocket science lol.

                • Orcocracy [comrade/them]
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  Ok, explain how it is true that every human purely by being born is equally culpable, and that human society isn’t at issue? And then you can explain why this doesn’t apply to you and your family.

                • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  No, humans need to reorganize society before curbing anything

                  Overpopulation isn't the driver of damage, overconsumption is

                  So much damage could be eliminated by

                  • allowing people to not mow their lawns/keep animals on them
                  • abolishing all dress codes (less need for AC in the summer)
                  • mandating green roofs
                  • public transit
                  • eliminating bullshit jobs
                  • requiring ease of repair

                  and so many other things, which wouldn't even reduce people's quality of life, but improve it (so long as these resources are shared equally). After that happens, yes you can talk about limiting births to a 2.0 fertility rate, with some leeway (like you get fewer privileges if you have more kids) but in general this planet could easily handle twice or even thrice the amount of humans with no environmental damage if the population was managed properly. Which of course means you don't get your own personal carriage to take you to a Taylor Swift concert 50 miles away at the drop of a hat

    • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]
      ·
      10 months ago

      diapers bad

      this reads like the reddit mayobrain take where they pat themselves on the back for not eating octopus because it's "smart"

      You're not doing anything, you're just stretching and reaching for a bright side to make yourself look good/feel good. Plastic literally-everything-fucking-else usage (ziploc bags, garbage bags, cups, spoons, forks, condiment packets, takeout containers, grocery bags which still exist despite having been banned) is so astronomically higher than diapers that it probably makes the CO2 differential between Africa and Europe look small

      • library_napper@monyet.cc
        ·
        10 months ago

        You missed the point. Disposable plastic items filing our landfills are bad, sure.

        But the problem I was referring-to isnt the diapers. It's the catastrophic environmental damage caused by humans reproducing. The problem is the babies.

    • SoyViking [he/him]
      ·
      10 months ago

      diapers bad

      Let me guess, you've never raised small children while also having to work full time?

      Washing, boiling and drying poopy diapers is something people had the time to do back when women were expected to be full-time housewives. Unless you're proposing a drastic reduction of work hours for parents, something "just raise the price of everything" is the direct opposite of doing, you're simply cheering for life becoming harder for ordinary working class people.

      You're not going to avert climate change by making things suck more for working class people. All that is going to lead to is ecofascism. A socialist alternative to climate change has to offer actual justice and a better future than the present.

    • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
      ·
      10 months ago

      Increasing the costs of two things that are causing the most damange to our planet is not a reason to criticize him tho.

      centrist