John Oliver discusses Taiwan’s history of being governed by other countries, its fraught present-day relationship with China, and what its citizens would lik...
The fact that there are self proclaimed socialists , communists and anarchists that even consider giving a late night show host any benifit of the doupt of not being garbage state department propaganda regarding foreign policy ,especially after the Venezuela and China videos, is beyond me. The mere fact that there is a "Taiwan" video as if anything changed on China's approach and actions in decades should tell you everything you need to know. The only thing that changed is manufacturing of consent for this new cold war and the US gravitating its military presence towards that erea and against China. And he , one way or the other, will propagate the narrative and be a good little stooge. Worse so he is much more effective than others for the entire "demsoc/socdem" or even "anarchist" sphere cause a sympathetic view of him has been allowed and developed and people have been consuming his content way less criticaly than other bourgeois media cause he is "one of the better ones"
Also anyone that comments anything in the vain of "but he is the most socdem of the late night hosts" should instantly get 1 week ban
Worse so he is much more effective than other for the entire “demsoc/socdem” or even “anarchist” sphere cause a sympathetic view of him has been allowed and developed and people have been consuming his content way less criticaly than other bourgeois media cause he is “one of the better ones”
Also anyone that comments anything in the vain of “but he is the most socdem of the late night hosts” should instantly get 1 week ban
:this: Anyone who gives Oliver the benefit of the doubt is exposing their liberal attitude.
Oliver is really good bait. One of the only shows that will talk at length about gerrymandering or voter suppression or evil coal barons - but that is all in service of selling NATO policy to bleeding heart liberals after the break.
Hasn't there actually been an increase in jet flyovers of claimed Taiwanese territory? Obviously the PRC has always maintained their claim on Taiwan, but it was my impression that the flyovers have actually increased.
Whether that means anything or not, it's certainly a departure from the previous status quo.
Also, I don't think Oliver is a State Department apparatus other than in the typical Manufacturing Consent sense which is to say that the tail that is the State Department wags the dog that is most US media. Not directly, but through narrative framing that the media unquestioningly adopts.
Hasn’t there actually been an increase in jet flyovers of claimed Taiwanese territory? Obviously the PRC has always maintained their claim on Taiwan, but it was my impression that the flyovers have actually increased.
See how easy it is to be sweapt by the easiest of imperialist tricks and propaganda . What these news use as "Tawianese airspace" is Taiwan's ADIZ(air defence identification zone") which in Taiwan's case is really massive, covering most of the South China and most of Fujian Province in China. . So its like if Cuba included Florida on its "airspace" and then international news posted constantly on how the US does flyovers in Cuban airspace
Also, I don’t think Oliver is a State Department apparatus other than in the typical Manufacturing Consent sense which is to say that the tail that is the State Department wags the dog that is most US media. Not directly, but through narrative framing that the media unquestioningly adopts.
Well yeah thats how that shit opperates most of the time. The machinery has been oiled and meticulously built for a century so the CIA etc dont need to actualy infiltrate or have people on payroll to expertly control the narrative and the media
Obviously, the system is such that people with convenient viewpoints get promoted. I'm just saying that we shouldn't pretend the CIA don't get directly involved as well, because they factually do.
I personally don't know. It's worth noting, thought, that China might just be flying more in general recently. The ADIZ covers more of the mainland than of Taiwan.
That might be where some of the flights are. But if he's counting ADIZ entries in general rather than just flights along that particular path, it could be anywhere in the zone shown in the map @please_dont linked.
The original charge is "garbage state department propaganda regarding foreign policy", which... yeah, Oliver's videos do fit the bill. Whether he knows it or not is a separate issue. He also called him a "stooge", which implies he doesn't work directly for the state department, but rather just allows himself to be used in propagating convenient narratives (i.e. people who do these things succeed in the media system).
IDK, I don't think the original comment was unreasonable. He wasn't saying Oliver is actually on the CIA payroll or anything.
To be honest, the CIA has actually exercised direct influence on news stories (and admitted as much), so it wouldn't be particularly surprising to find out he has staff connected to intelligence agencies or something like that. Regardless, he seems to fall pretty well into their desired framing, as you said.
I know you didn't mean all the claimed RoC territory, but still lol because that's what immediately sprang to mind.
Also, I don’t think Oliver is a State Department apparatus other than in the typical Manufacturing Consent sense which is to say that the tail that is the State Department wags the dog that is most US media. Not directly, but through narrative framing that the media unquestioningly adopts.
True, but it's much more than "unquestioningly adopting". There was even recently (IIRC) a new set of CIA documents released recently bragging about how they delay, modify, and even prevent articles.
The fact that there are self proclaimed socialists , communists and anarchists that even consider giving a late night show host any benifit of the doupt of not being garbage state department propaganda regarding foreign policy ,especially after the Venezuela and China videos, is beyond me. The mere fact that there is a "Taiwan" video as if anything changed on China's approach and actions in decades should tell you everything you need to know. The only thing that changed is manufacturing of consent for this new cold war and the US gravitating its military presence towards that erea and against China. And he , one way or the other, will propagate the narrative and be a good little stooge. Worse so he is much more effective than others for the entire "demsoc/socdem" or even "anarchist" sphere cause a sympathetic view of him has been allowed and developed and people have been consuming his content way less criticaly than other bourgeois media cause he is "one of the better ones"
Also anyone that comments anything in the vain of "but he is the most socdem of the late night hosts" should instantly get 1 week ban
:this: Anyone who gives Oliver the benefit of the doubt is exposing their liberal attitude.
Oliver is really good bait. One of the only shows that will talk at length about gerrymandering or voter suppression or evil coal barons - but that is all in service of selling NATO policy to bleeding heart liberals after the break.
Hasn't there actually been an increase in jet flyovers of claimed Taiwanese territory? Obviously the PRC has always maintained their claim on Taiwan, but it was my impression that the flyovers have actually increased.
Whether that means anything or not, it's certainly a departure from the previous status quo.
Also, I don't think Oliver is a State Department apparatus other than in the typical Manufacturing Consent sense which is to say that the tail that is the State Department wags the dog that is most US media. Not directly, but through narrative framing that the media unquestioningly adopts.
See how easy it is to be sweapt by the easiest of imperialist tricks and propaganda . What these news use as "Tawianese airspace" is Taiwan's ADIZ(air defence identification zone") which in Taiwan's case is really massive, covering most of the South China and most of Fujian Province in China. . So its like if Cuba included Florida on its "airspace" and then international news posted constantly on how the US does flyovers in Cuban airspace
Well yeah thats how that shit opperates most of the time. The machinery has been oiled and meticulously built for a century so the CIA etc dont need to actualy infiltrate or have people on payroll to expertly control the narrative and the media
Except they actually do in many cases. A lot of big news agencies are (and have been) revolving doors for intelligence agents.
deleted by creator
Obviously, the system is such that people with convenient viewpoints get promoted. I'm just saying that we shouldn't pretend the CIA don't get directly involved as well, because they factually do.
Right but afaik the Taiwan ADIZ hasn't expanded recently, so isn't it at least notable that China is flying more in this area than previously?
I personally don't know. It's worth noting, thought, that China might just be flying more in general recently. The ADIZ covers more of the mainland than of Taiwan.
Didn't know that. Does make Oliver's graphic pretty disingenuous. He basically draws it as a line in the ocean.
That might be where some of the flights are. But if he's counting ADIZ entries in general rather than just flights along that particular path, it could be anywhere in the zone shown in the map @please_dont linked.
deleted by creator
Sure but I thought the original read much more like "he's on the payroll" rather than just "he accepts the government's framing".
deleted by creator
I mean, if that's your criteria then so is pretty much ever single person working for a paycheck. By that logic, I work for the State Department.
deleted by creator
The original charge is "garbage state department propaganda regarding foreign policy", which... yeah, Oliver's videos do fit the bill. Whether he knows it or not is a separate issue. He also called him a "stooge", which implies he doesn't work directly for the state department, but rather just allows himself to be used in propagating convenient narratives (i.e. people who do these things succeed in the media system).
IDK, I don't think the original comment was unreasonable. He wasn't saying Oliver is actually on the CIA payroll or anything.
To be honest, the CIA has actually exercised direct influence on news stories (and admitted as much), so it wouldn't be particularly surprising to find out he has staff connected to intelligence agencies or something like that. Regardless, he seems to fall pretty well into their desired framing, as you said.
I know you didn't mean all the claimed RoC territory, but still lol because that's what immediately sprang to mind.
True, but it's much more than "unquestioningly adopting". There was even recently (IIRC) a new set of CIA documents released recently bragging about how they delay, modify, and even prevent articles.