Alright let’s hear it
The fact that there are self proclaimed socialists , communists and anarchists that even consider giving a late night show host any benifit of the doupt of not being garbage state department propaganda regarding foreign policy ,especially after the Venezuela and China videos, is beyond me. The mere fact that there is a "Taiwan" video as if anything changed on China's approach and actions in decades should tell you everything you need to know. The only thing that changed is manufacturing of consent for this new cold war and the US gravitating its military presence towards that erea and against China. And he , one way or the other, will propagate the narrative and be a good little stooge. Worse so he is much more effective than others for the entire "demsoc/socdem" or even "anarchist" sphere cause a sympathetic view of him has been allowed and developed and people have been consuming his content way less criticaly than other bourgeois media cause he is "one of the better ones"
Also anyone that comments anything in the vain of "but he is the most socdem of the late night hosts" should instantly get 1 week ban
Worse so he is much more effective than other for the entire “demsoc/socdem” or even “anarchist” sphere cause a sympathetic view of him has been allowed and developed and people have been consuming his content way less criticaly than other bourgeois media cause he is “one of the better ones”
Also anyone that comments anything in the vain of “but he is the most socdem of the late night hosts” should instantly get 1 week ban
:this: Anyone who gives Oliver the benefit of the doubt is exposing their liberal attitude.
Oliver is really good bait. One of the only shows that will talk at length about gerrymandering or voter suppression or evil coal barons - but that is all in service of selling NATO policy to bleeding heart liberals after the break.
Hasn't there actually been an increase in jet flyovers of claimed Taiwanese territory? Obviously the PRC has always maintained their claim on Taiwan, but it was my impression that the flyovers have actually increased.
Whether that means anything or not, it's certainly a departure from the previous status quo.
Also, I don't think Oliver is a State Department apparatus other than in the typical Manufacturing Consent sense which is to say that the tail that is the State Department wags the dog that is most US media. Not directly, but through narrative framing that the media unquestioningly adopts.
Hasn’t there actually been an increase in jet flyovers of claimed Taiwanese territory? Obviously the PRC has always maintained their claim on Taiwan, but it was my impression that the flyovers have actually increased.
See how easy it is to be sweapt by the easiest of imperialist tricks and propaganda . What these news use as "Tawianese airspace" is Taiwan's ADIZ(air defence identification zone") which in Taiwan's case is really massive, covering most of the South China and most of Fujian Province in China. . So its like if Cuba included Florida on its "airspace" and then international news posted constantly on how the US does flyovers in Cuban airspace
Also, I don’t think Oliver is a State Department apparatus other than in the typical Manufacturing Consent sense which is to say that the tail that is the State Department wags the dog that is most US media. Not directly, but through narrative framing that the media unquestioningly adopts.
Well yeah thats how that shit opperates most of the time. The machinery has been oiled and meticulously built for a century so the CIA etc dont need to actualy infiltrate or have people on payroll to expertly control the narrative and the media
the CIA etc dont need to actualy infiltrate or have people on payroll to expertly control the narrative and the media
Except they actually do in many cases. A lot of big news agencies are (and have been) revolving doors for intelligence agents.
Obviously, the system is such that people with convenient viewpoints get promoted. I'm just saying that we shouldn't pretend the CIA don't get directly involved as well, because they factually do.
Right but afaik the Taiwan ADIZ hasn't expanded recently, so isn't it at least notable that China is flying more in this area than previously?
I personally don't know. It's worth noting, thought, that China might just be flying more in general recently. The ADIZ covers more of the mainland than of Taiwan.
Didn't know that. Does make Oliver's graphic pretty disingenuous. He basically draws it as a line in the ocean.
That might be where some of the flights are. But if he's counting ADIZ entries in general rather than just flights along that particular path, it could be anywhere in the zone shown in the map @please_dont linked.
Sure but I thought the original read much more like "he's on the payroll" rather than just "he accepts the government's framing".
I mean, if that's your criteria then so is pretty much ever single person working for a paycheck. By that logic, I work for the State Department.
The original charge is "garbage state department propaganda regarding foreign policy", which... yeah, Oliver's videos do fit the bill. Whether he knows it or not is a separate issue. He also called him a "stooge", which implies he doesn't work directly for the state department, but rather just allows himself to be used in propagating convenient narratives (i.e. people who do these things succeed in the media system).
IDK, I don't think the original comment was unreasonable. He wasn't saying Oliver is actually on the CIA payroll or anything.
To be honest, the CIA has actually exercised direct influence on news stories (and admitted as much), so it wouldn't be particularly surprising to find out he has staff connected to intelligence agencies or something like that. Regardless, he seems to fall pretty well into their desired framing, as you said.
flyovers of claimed Taiwanese territory
I know you didn't mean all the claimed RoC territory, but still lol because that's what immediately sprang to mind.
Also, I don’t think Oliver is a State Department apparatus other than in the typical Manufacturing Consent sense which is to say that the tail that is the State Department wags the dog that is most US media. Not directly, but through narrative framing that the media unquestioningly adopts.
True, but it's much more than "unquestioningly adopting". There was even recently (IIRC) a new set of CIA documents released recently bragging about how they delay, modify, and even prevent articles.
Something that bothered me while watching this is: doesn't Taiwan also claim mainland China as their territory ? Oliver never mentioned it during his bit, but I thought it was true, at least until recently.
Technically, yes, that is the official position of the RoC government. Practically, they're well aware that there's no way they're ever getting the mainland back.
An even better point (cause the claim all of china is mostly a nationalist and its party and political sphere offshoots thing and people will go -NO they dont at this day and age) is that Taiwan legit claims more of the South China Sea than China and thats pretty much true among most if not all big political "parties"
Some do, some favor 'eventual' reunification with China (ostensibly with certain 'special exceptions' made).
I think their official position is still that they are the rightful government, but it has been downplayed over the last few decades
They claim all of China plus all of Mongolia and parts of Russia, India, Bhutan, Myanmar, Pakistan, Tajikistan, and Afghanistan.
They dropped that claim in the 1990s, their official stance is that they're a separate independent nation.
AFAIK that was in the so-called Temporary Provisions that were repealed in 1991. The Additional Articles that were subsequently passed assert that the territory they claim is the area under their control, the "Taiwan Free Area."
My guess is "the situation in Taiwan is very complicated, but that doesn't give Winnie the Pooh the right to interfere with the sovereignty of an independent country" maybe something about how Trump didn't warmonger against china in a "smart" way
I'm not gonna watch it let me know how close I was
the situation in Taiwan is very complicated, but that doesn’t give Winnie the Pooh the right to interfere with the sovereignty of an independent country
Basically exactly what he says lmao
lol, like handing it to the confederates. No understanding of what a civil war is. Nice going, John, you British fuckwit.
Edit: westerners should stay away from Taiwan. It's their fault the situation is "complicated" in the first place, no need for them to make it worse.
I don't like John Oliver. Some of his shit has enraged me. He's definitely a lib and has in the past obviously helped manufacture consent. It's been said often before that he is good at laying bare some of the specific details of the natural consequences of late capitalism, but never actually identifies the root of the problem, and I mostly agree with that take.
But in this case, what you just said: "Westerners should stay away from Taiwan. It’s their fault the situation is “complicated” in the first place, no need for them to make it worse." is pretty much exactly what he closes with here.
I'm... not going to watch it right now because I'm not really in the mood to be annoyed, so it's possible I'm selling him short in this particular case.
However, knowing him, I'm guessing that was his end bit after saying a bunch of things that are coincidentally convenient to US interests. His stuff, from what I recall, tends towards pushing ideas about international politics that are useful for empire, even if he throws in a few lines about USA bad sometimes, which is kind of my whole problem with it.
That is what he said, but by making this propaganda piece he tacitly implies the opposite.
But even without saying it’s an independent nation.
Also glossing over a bit of who is there.
The implication of it is maybe people who don’t live there should shut up about it.
maybe people who don’t live there should shut up about it
Westerners minding their own business? Impossible.
saying that Taiwan isn't an independent country is like saying that your Auntie Brunnhilda isn't actually your Auntie - sure, she's your grandmum's 'special friend', technically, but when you're crying into her braids after Father Christmas delivers you coal, you try and say she isn't really your Auntie!
Is this a line from the actual vid, or something you came up with, because frankly most inane non sequiturs are right at home for Oliver iirc
idk, but I was trying to come up with something exactly like this as a satire. if this is made up, it's damn good.
I am, that's why I come to this site - for the most up to date news and opinions in liberalism
You captured the cadence of those bits perfectly, well done.
Edit: Thanks for the gold, kind stranger!
Edit 2: Wow! My highest rated comment is about le evil CCP! Take that, Xi!
Lol, I mean I too was a brain wormed lib who thought Oliver was God's gift to comedy once upon a time but honestly I never thought there was much context to get wrong on the Drumpf bit. At the time it honestly wasn't even that cringe. Oliver and everyone else was just having a good laugh at the clown and refusing to take his joke candidacy and his supporters seriously. Its mainly cringe in hindsight because it serves as a constant reminder of how wrong Oliver and, being honest, most of us were at not taking the Trump presidency seriously all the way up until the point when it literally stopped being a bit.
"You know I do kinda miss that period of human history where the only way to learn about human cultures was to have a British man on amphetamines tell you which were the good ones and which were the baddies." Is he trying to be ironic here or is he just that unaware? :wonder-who-thats-for:
shows a brawl in Taiwanese Congress
"This shows that Taiwan has a vibrant and well functioning democracy."
He goes on to say that most Taiwanese people would like to keep the status quo, so why is John making this video?
so why is John making this video
China bad. It's the subject of the day for western media.
That's literally all this video is. Probably the worst John Oliver video I've seen. I was really looking for some sort of argument about how China is committing human rights violations against Taiwan or something, but the video is basically, "Taiwan is a place that exists, and because of politics has mild inconveniences at the Olympics. It has important resources and has a relatively weak military. Now I'm not saying that the US should provoke war with a nation of over a billion people by stationing nuclear warheads in Taiwan, but I'm also not not saying that. This country that has routine fights breaking out in its halls of government is a free democracy and uhhh... might need to be protected at all costs."
Nonono, that's not the right one. The one that shows Taiwan has a vibrant and well-functioning democracy is the photo of officials doing a roman salute. Oh, sorry. The multiple photos.
Unfortunately, the Wikipedia article for the roman salute has no context for these. They're just quietly linked at the very bottom.
"Nonce" is actually British for "libertarian". :libertarian-alert:
6:00 minute mark is some STRONG ASS selfawarewolves territory
Jon trying to make light of the anti-communist BBC presenter is just a bit too on the nose
Foreseeable future will be rotating thru scaremongering about Taiwan, HK, Xinjiang, Tibet, or inner Mongolia.
Oliver said Taiwan’s relations with China are “fraught” and growing worse. He played news clips that highlighted China’s increased military provocations toward Taiwan, including its nearly 150 sorties into the East Asian democracy’s air defense identification zone in early October.
Ahhh yes, China's "incursions" into Taiwain'ts ADIZ, which may I remind you, covers more land in the Mainland than the island
