I don't like these words either much. It's definitely something socialists should be conscious of, but also, the people in this space should be taught how strategically playing into certain things is beneficial for our ability to be a space that appeals to those groups and then radicalises them leftwards.
I completely agree on not banning ableism too, even though I strongly dislike ableism. I don't think it's a battle that can be fought or won in society for a decade, in much the same way trans people had to wait for their time to come in order for their battle to really start raging, and over-policing is a method socialist communities are simply alienating the workers from their spaces.
We need to not alienate the workers. We need to attract them and then radicalise them.
I mean, I do think there are certain terms that are ableist that we should not use that are not just impolite. I refuse to say the r-word, for example, and the term cripple isn't great when used as a noun. In general I'm bothered by a focus on intelligence as being a driver for validity, and I think we would be good to shy away from that.
I prefer education over banning it. But honestly I don't think workers are as bad about this as so-called educated leftists tend to be. My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.
There's been an edgy resurgence of it, and I don't know why. It did fade for a time, but it's come back. It feels to me like sort of a culture war thing.
In real life maybe but there were so many struggle sessions on the subreddit where telling people not to use it was the entire reason the left is losing
Yeah I call people out on r-word too, but while I actively try to police myself on things like "dumb" and "stupid" (badly, I'm not perfect) I see it as a battle that will alienate when we need to be throwing our doors open.
It's definitely a battle that needs to be fought, but certain spaces like this one should be intentionally aiming for a zone that still attracts the imperfect. The spaces that are socialist-only that do police these words will bring people towards being anti-ableist as they move through the pipeline.
My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.
I think this is a case of having the right kind of person speaking in the right kind of ways to reach this kind of group of people. You need people that walk the walk in those crowds in order to reach them, when you have that it's incredibly easy to get the message through.
I don't like these words either much. It's definitely something socialists should be conscious of, but also, the people in this space should be taught how strategically playing into certain things is beneficial for our ability to be a space that appeals to those groups and then radicalises them leftwards.
I completely agree on not banning ableism too, even though I strongly dislike ableism. I don't think it's a battle that can be fought or won in society for a decade, in much the same way trans people had to wait for their time to come in order for their battle to really start raging, and over-policing is a method socialist communities are simply alienating the workers from their spaces.
We need to not alienate the workers. We need to attract them and then radicalise them.
I mean, I do think there are certain terms that are ableist that we should not use that are not just impolite. I refuse to say the r-word, for example, and the term cripple isn't great when used as a noun. In general I'm bothered by a focus on intelligence as being a driver for validity, and I think we would be good to shy away from that.
I prefer education over banning it. But honestly I don't think workers are as bad about this as so-called educated leftists tend to be. My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.
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There's been an edgy resurgence of it, and I don't know why. It did fade for a time, but it's come back. It feels to me like sort of a culture war thing.
In real life maybe but there were so many struggle sessions on the subreddit where telling people not to use it was the entire reason the left is losing
Yeah I call people out on r-word too, but while I actively try to police myself on things like "dumb" and "stupid" (badly, I'm not perfect) I see it as a battle that will alienate when we need to be throwing our doors open.
It's definitely a battle that needs to be fought, but certain spaces like this one should be intentionally aiming for a zone that still attracts the imperfect. The spaces that are socialist-only that do police these words will bring people towards being anti-ableist as they move through the pipeline.
I think this is a case of having the right kind of person speaking in the right kind of ways to reach this kind of group of people. You need people that walk the walk in those crowds in order to reach them, when you have that it's incredibly easy to get the message through.