"Cringe" is just a method of marginalising people for having interests or behaviours that are outside a dictated social normal by the dominant group.
It is a word that should be opposed by any socialist.
Not really, not at all the same thing. I'd compare the pejorative use of "autistic" to the former pejorative use of "gay". IMO the main feature of the pejorative usage is that it is an identity trait that is intrinsic — if you are aren't a member of the group you will always be "above" it, so when you're using either as an insult it isn't a danger to you. Anyone can do cringe.
(Im gay, autistic, and cringey)
I feel like we should stop using the language of the right, personally, but that seems to be a controversial topic around these here parts.
Depends on the language to be honest. I believe there's a strategic purpose to keeping chapo from becoming a socialist-only space in that heavy policing of the community will eliminate the ability to reopen the lib to left pipeline. However, I do think that we should be making a conscious effort with certain things, generally, like this particular word. It is leveled at a lot of trans and furry people for no reason other than an in-group deciding they want to marginalise the interests or exposure of these people because it would be bad for their "image". I absolutely can't stand that attitude to people and oppose it. It's a quick, sharp and nasty means of dominant groups in a social crowd enforcing their will on the out-group for nothing other than deeming their behaviour to be embarrassing.
Which language in particular are you talking about? I'm up for a conversation about it, but I do think I'd oppose certain things.
Oh I just mean conscientiously I avoid using language as an insult like cuck or simp or soy boy, even ironically, because the right's trying to make that shit bad. There ain't nothing wrong with being a cuck. I know there are some spaces that ban the word stupid, which is ill-considered in my opinion, but I definitely think it's bad to use their insults as our insults.
I don't like these words either much. It's definitely something socialists should be conscious of, but also, the people in this space should be taught how strategically playing into certain things is beneficial for our ability to be a space that appeals to those groups and then radicalises them leftwards.
I completely agree on not banning ableism too, even though I strongly dislike ableism. I don't think it's a battle that can be fought or won in society for a decade, in much the same way trans people had to wait for their time to come in order for their battle to really start raging, and over-policing is a method socialist communities are simply alienating the workers from their spaces.
We need to not alienate the workers. We need to attract them and then radicalise them.
I mean, I do think there are certain terms that are ableist that we should not use that are not just impolite. I refuse to say the r-word, for example, and the term cripple isn't great when used as a noun. In general I'm bothered by a focus on intelligence as being a driver for validity, and I think we would be good to shy away from that.
I prefer education over banning it. But honestly I don't think workers are as bad about this as so-called educated leftists tend to be. My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.
There's been an edgy resurgence of it, and I don't know why. It did fade for a time, but it's come back. It feels to me like sort of a culture war thing.
In real life maybe but there were so many struggle sessions on the subreddit where telling people not to use it was the entire reason the left is losing
Yeah I call people out on r-word too, but while I actively try to police myself on things like "dumb" and "stupid" (badly, I'm not perfect) I see it as a battle that will alienate when we need to be throwing our doors open.
It's definitely a battle that needs to be fought, but certain spaces like this one should be intentionally aiming for a zone that still attracts the imperfect. The spaces that are socialist-only that do police these words will bring people towards being anti-ableist as they move through the pipeline.
My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.
I think this is a case of having the right kind of person speaking in the right kind of ways to reach this kind of group of people. You need people that walk the walk in those crowds in order to reach them, when you have that it's incredibly easy to get the message through.
We really do need a word for someone who seems to be a congenital awful idea generator (Regardless of intelligence or learning disability), and Stupid despite its unfortunate past seems to work for that until a better one comes up that doesn't sound like a Shakspearean insult.
I agree, but my goal is to find a word or phrase to identify why their ideas suck without it being based on their intelligence or cognitive abilities. Often selfish or shitty is what I go to, but it doesn't encapsulate things well.
why not use the more verbose version? it's kinda funny and more descriptive than stupid.
Cause the point is to hurt the Chud, and the Chud's not read The Illiad. I need something that's sharp and immediate. Shithead is ok, but not quite insulting enough.
Oh my god he so is! Let's go take back my brother's wife, who may have left of her own accord, even if it means a generation of war. Then let's go ahead and kill my daughter so that we can have good winds for our voyage to the aforementioned protracted war. And now let's kidnap this girl who is the daughter of a priest of Apollo and I'll rape her all the time, because there's no way that could go poorly. Oh, I had to give her back to her father to stop Apollo from killing everyone with a plague? Better take Achilles' rape slave then, there's no way he'll get pissed off about that. Oh wait, he stopped fighting in this useless fucking war and now the Trojans are winning all of a sudden? Whoops, better convince Patroclus to don Achilles' armor to make the Trojans afraid (that might actually have been Odysseus' idea, it's been a while since I read the Iliad). Oh, Patroclus is dead and Achilles has gone mad with grief and is dragging Hektor's body around behind his chariot? Fucking oops.
And then at the end Agamemnon goes home and gets wrapped in a curtain and stabbed to death by his pissed-off wife who I think was also cheating on him, because who the fuck wouldn't when your dumbass husband goes to war for ten years for basically no reason?
Do real life people actually use the Chad/simp/soyboy lingo outside of reddit or 4chan? Because if so I think I might have just lost even more faith in humanity. As an atheist, Jesus please take the wheel!
I mean I got out of highschool 2 years ago now and the big ones were "triggered", "cringe" and shit like that back then
I feel like I don't need to tell you this, but don't watch Paul Joseph Watson.
Australia’s leader of the opposition called the PM a simp earlier this week.
Scotty from marketing being called a simp? Seriously? :che-smile: :che-smile: :che-smile:
Wtf has the world come to, the only thing Elon is right about is that we do live in a simulation
In South Africa parties try use local internet lingo to try appeal to the youth. The worst example has to be when the so called "left wing" party (they're really not, that's another story) tried to explain Marxist theory though WhatsApp lingo like "blue ticks" (WhatsApp puts 2 blue ticks next to a message that has been read) and shit. Real condescending hours there
Read this if you want to know about the shitshow that is South African politics: https://ewn.co.za/2020/08/19/it-s-anti-white-blm-campaign-shows-sharp-differences-in-parly
Freedom front plus is the party that wants apartheid back so no surprise there. They have been emboldened by the US op around white farm murders, which got them 5% of the vote last time. The EFF says a lot of good things, but their actions reveal their true intentions, I mean this is a massive fuck up: https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-04-15-eff-councillors-against-33-solidarity-fund-contribution/
tried to explain Marxist theory though WhatsApp lingo like “blue ticks”
Alright, now I wanna know what exactly they said
I can't find the exact thing, but here's some similar moments: https://youtu.be/3aBXTDvC5C8
cringe is not right wing it’s totally neutral. everyone online uses cringe
Nothing is totally neutral. Everything originated somewhere, and cringe is based on shame and bullying.
Shame certainly is, because they're all weird about tradition and honor and bullshit like that.
people wonder why leftists cant get traction. we make everything an extreme politcal opinion. how tf can we radicalize people when we are so far removed from them. calling cringe a psuedo fascist word is not good in building rapport and only alienates
Am I talking to a bunch of mill workers here? I thought we were having a discussion, bro.
Ima be honest i came across as kind of a dick. I think im just annoyed about an overall trend of the left being super exclusive and making innocuous things “cancellable” or problematic in a way that can alienate libs/apolitical who are potential radicals.
I get that. I do think it's valuable on the left to think about our language, because it is often indicative of toxic mindsets we've inherited. That's not a conversation I'd have with someone as they're becoming more comfortable with leftism overall.
I can totally get behind that actually. as long as we allow for misteps for those who are learning in good faith i think thats totally reasonable
I always assume good faith first. It's only when someone doubles down or gets defensive that I abandon any pretext. If I see someone use a slur, I'll let them know that it is one. If they get annoyed, then they're probably a dick.
ok fair, can't deny that even as a straight man I have a thing for being dominated by gay men
I think it depends on context and type of cringe. Contemptuous cringe vs empathetic cringe makes all the difference in the world; though I will agree that most "cringe" labeled as such on the internet is definitely contemptuous.
Same with everyone telling me now fucking stupid I am. It'd have a lot more bite if I didn't have a PhD and first-hand experience with how useless most notions of intelligence are.
My experience as a premed student robbed me of any pretense that smart people are intelligent and vice versa.
Wait there's a way to pay the bills by bragging about how smart you are? Shit someone should've told me when I was a kid, I'd be rich.
Bragging about your comprehension of "how useless notions of intelligence are" is genuinely fucking cringe dude
I'm willing to be /r/iamverysmart in the service how stupid I really am.
I try very hard to get my students to. Otherwise the students who have been implicitly and explicitly told their whole lives that "they're not one of the smart ones" are going to find all these methods and skills walled off for absolutely no good reason.
A person's actual level of intelligence is not static, it varies from moment to moment, depending on their level of wakefulness, what they had to eat that day, their momentary emotional state, and a hundred other factors. The "smartest" person you know can still step into a rake and that absolute dumbass who just cut you off in traffic might actually have a very good reason for what they are doing. I chalk up the whole enterprise of intelligence measurement to yet another instance of where we individualize something that depends as much on externalities as not.
Are we saying "Hella" again?
I feel like I never got to say it. "Hella" came and went.
being from norcal, I've never stopped saying hella, especially when I'm talking about my favorite norcal band, Hella
Not sure about cordiality, but in my experience no one where I grew up said hellacious, lmao
Seems like a socal thing (maybe central valley)
Hella kinda peters out once you get north of Sacramento in my experience, but I could be wrong
Non-existent in southern California as well.
I don't know about central CA, I try not to stop anywhere in that shithole part of the state.
Once you get back up to Arcata it starts again and continues as far north as Bellingham. Although PNW folks say "that's hella" instead of using it as an adjective and it drives Californians nuts.
i am also ok with this. i like it when people find me interesting, but I am not such an egomaniac that I need everyone to find me interesting.
There is definitely a wide pool between people who use the word cringe and people who spend their time in "cringe" communities on Reddit
It's such a hilariously old-fashioned thing for 2020. You're going to try to shame me to stop being a dumbass? GOOD FUCKING LUCK.
Yeah, it's very important to do some extremely cringe things at least once in a while.
I'll only accept that most post is cringe if it was bad enough for you to actually close your browser and walk away
Sure. But certain things are just cringey, and I'm not talking about being trans or furry or on the spectrum or any other marginalized group. The word embarrassing could be substituted if you prefer but I don't see a big difference. Otherwise if that's not okay either then you're basically asking that no one ever say anything even remotely mean about anyone else. That's some kindergarten shit, which is not congruent with how people think or interact in the real world, and it sounds boring.
certain things are just cringey
Like what?
To be embarrassed you have to care what others think, generally, and I'm honestly too old to give any fucks.
Idk like most campaign ads are pretty cringey. Corporate cooptation of cool or woke rhetoric. White people making comedic rap songs. Hamilton. That "Imagine" video. TED talks. Just a few examples off the top of my head
I guess when you call those things embarrassing, you'd have to assume they have a sense of shame. To be embarrassed they have to think what they're doing is worthy of embarrassment. That stuff doesn't tend to make me cringe, it's just pointless to me.
I feel like a lack of self-awareness is kind of a defining feature of what I'm talking about?
A few other things that I would define as "cringe" specifically in the context of online leftists, which is probably more relevant here:
- tankie vs anarkiddy shit
- "look at me owning this chud" posts
- definitive, scolding proclamations about what other leftists must or must not do (not that this is what you're doing but I have seen some of it here)
- overuse of Soviet imagery and the word "comrade" (I acknowledge this is a controversial take)
Uhh in my country comrade is a mainstream word used to refer to either party members or close people. Is America really so fucked by anti communist propaganda that the word comrade is considered "cringy"
Is America really so fucked by anti communist propaganda that the word comrade is considered “cringy”
Yes, America is that fucked by anti communist and anti-Russian propaganda. To the vast majority of Americans, the word "comrade" would sound very distinctly and self-consciously Soviet.
Okay as a non American that is really weird, many African countries use the word comrade a lot for example. It has almost no Soviet association here
100% its akin to m’lady larpers but instead of medieval chivalry its 1920s revolutionary speak
Is America really so fucked by anti communist propaganda that the word comrade is considered “cringy”
Yes. Anything left of radlib gets labeled tankie.
Not gonna say my age but probably older than you. The things I listed feel very high-school to me tbh. Maybe it's mean to be annoyed by harmless kids and I don't really care enough to attack people over it but hey you brought it up.
You don't have to answer, man, I don't know why this is such a big deal though.
Sure it does. A lot of younger folks are much more susceptible to cringe stuff than older folks. The shit I cared about at 25 isn't anything comparable to now. That's how I can usually tell someone's younger is their fixation on CRINGE.
Yeah for sure. Young people are excruciatingly self conscious. I'm not quite sure why you would interpret what I'm saying as a "fixation on cringe"
All the stuff you find cringe at least on the left is not terribly cringe, that's why I think you're younger than me. Perhaps in your 20s.
i used to be cagey about my age on the internet before too (40 btw) but that was when I still cared what teens thought of me.
It's just implying that cringe is objective rather than subjective. I just found her statement to be very awkward but I wouldn't have classified it as cringe.
does it still count if it doesn't sound like cringe to people we don't like?
Did anyone not find the cedar rapids thing embarrassing?
How about "call me your abuela?"
ok, every single person finds those things embarrassing, now what will you do with this info?
