imperial core patriotism doesn't recognize any nation but itself, it is a foreover monster, a cancer that gobbles all it can until it is either consumed or consuming, this is why ussr good, even if it wasn't a national liberation it didn't use patriotism to elevate one above all in a nazi paradox (the paradox being that if the enemy is weak there is no need to rise above it, if it is strong there is no reason to elevate above it), it instead helped friendly nations grow and strengthen and nations become friendly, also why so many communists fell in 1990 though unfortunately
our preferred troll, read the comment again, it was not imperialist patriotism, I explained why, I am not going into philosophy and how the ussr deterritorialized patriotism
American chauvinism & xenophobia are not the same things as patriotic socialism & proletarian internationalism in America, which by themselves are not mutually exclusive
USSR never deterritorialized patriotism, it was always tied to the reality of the land & the people of the constituent republics & fraternal relations among socialist nations
again you didn't read the first comment, as it was exactly my point,
the patriotism in the ussr was as much tied to the outside friendly nations as it was to the republics, which were already a deterritorialization compared to bourgeois patriotism, and always subservient to the greater well being of the soviets
It was desperate measure of 30s though, to find common ground amidst class war in ussr before invasion. It should have been temporary deviation (to use, not to instill). Alas, patriotism got its wormhooks, and mutated over ussr decay period into nationalism. One shouldn’t mistake that for patriotism being desirable.
Genuinely where before 30s? Movies about great man to instill pride in past where done then, church was slowly let go.
It isn’t desirable, it’s sometimes necessary evil to forge bonds between classes, but they are rotten from within. As soon as you have more solidarity with petit bourgeois fuck than with worker, cause one is from the same nation and the latter isn’t, you’ve got a problem.
National xenophobic issues in ussr give fairly illustrative example, with slow displacement into Russian chauvinism.
Soviet patriotism & the "Soviet person" was simultaneously proletarian internationalist & proud of their heritage & national identity
Yes, love of one's country & people is "socialism" at its very heart. There is no "forging bonds between classes" as such, it's about promoting socially necessary relations between & among Soviet nations. Indigenization was part of this process, but so was the "New Soviet man", these process worked in tandem
Great-Russian chauvinism always existed in those areas, and only a "patriotic socialism" could address it
But new soviet man wasn’t rooted in nation crucially, while patriotism was. Just look into output of movies before war, with nevsky and grozny pics. It’s fairly obvious what they are doing and why: they are telling kulaks and assorted declassed elements - look, at least we are russians, we can kill any invasion.
Country is garbage heap invented whole cloth after feudalism has finished dividing finite land. What is one’s country if you are born in Lorraine?
People is one thing, you can like your place of growing up (as in location and people), people like remembering childhood. but being proud of kings who fucked over all your ancestry requires truly mesmerizing leap to be considered desirable.
Class solidarity could address it, with indifference to place of birth. But alas, the germany got fucked
Stalin referred to the Russian nation as the "elder brother" among the constituent republics. The New Soviet man was integral to forming the Soviet patriotism in both its many constituent national contexts & in the overall production of Soviet national identity
Marx was born in Trier which is in the "Sar-Lor-Lux" region, and is inherently a mishmash of Francophone & Germanic influences. But Marx was German
Patriotic socialism has nothing to do with being proud of kings
Yes, and I’m again telling you the reason why stalin did it: it was class glue to hold on till the war, or the vlasov affair prolly would have been much worse.
You don’t need patriotism, ffs, worker solidarity isn’t patriotism, and worker pride (so to say) isn’t patriotism.
The Soviet Union took shortcut and it backfired 50 years later when shortcut engineers were purged, and nomenklatura decided that all was fine, we should continue. considering the boomer state in eastern europe - it backfired everywhere
imperial core patriotism doesn't recognize any nation but itself, it is a foreover monster, a cancer that gobbles all it can until it is either consumed or consuming, this is why ussr good, even if it wasn't a national liberation it didn't use patriotism to elevate one above all in a nazi paradox (the paradox being that if the enemy is weak there is no need to rise above it, if it is strong there is no reason to elevate above it), it instead helped friendly nations grow and strengthen and nations become friendly, also why so many communists fell in 1990 though unfortunately
USSR did use patriotism, and so did East Germany
our preferred troll, read the comment again, it was not imperialist patriotism, I explained why, I am not going into philosophy and how the ussr deterritorialized patriotism
American chauvinism & xenophobia are not the same things as patriotic socialism & proletarian internationalism in America, which by themselves are not mutually exclusive
USSR never deterritorialized patriotism, it was always tied to the reality of the land & the people of the constituent republics & fraternal relations among socialist nations
again you didn't read the first comment, as it was exactly my point, the patriotism in the ussr was as much tied to the outside friendly nations as it was to the republics, which were already a deterritorialization compared to bourgeois patriotism, and always subservient to the greater well being of the soviets
Socialist patriotism isn't bourgeois patriotism/chauvinism, the two are anathema
do you know how to read? it was't in any of my comments
okay
It was desperate measure of 30s though, to find common ground amidst class war in ussr before invasion. It should have been temporary deviation (to use, not to instill). Alas, patriotism got its wormhooks, and mutated over ussr decay period into nationalism. One shouldn’t mistake that for patriotism being desirable.
No, proletarian patriotism in USSR was a constant throughout... as it was in East Germany after WWII
Chauvinism isn't desirable, but pride in one's country & people is
Genuinely where before 30s? Movies about great man to instill pride in past where done then, church was slowly let go.
It isn’t desirable, it’s sometimes necessary evil to forge bonds between classes, but they are rotten from within. As soon as you have more solidarity with petit bourgeois fuck than with worker, cause one is from the same nation and the latter isn’t, you’ve got a problem.
National xenophobic issues in ussr give fairly illustrative example, with slow displacement into Russian chauvinism.
Soviet patriotism & the "Soviet person" was simultaneously proletarian internationalist & proud of their heritage & national identity
Yes, love of one's country & people is "socialism" at its very heart. There is no "forging bonds between classes" as such, it's about promoting socially necessary relations between & among Soviet nations. Indigenization was part of this process, but so was the "New Soviet man", these process worked in tandem
Great-Russian chauvinism always existed in those areas, and only a "patriotic socialism" could address it
But new soviet man wasn’t rooted in nation crucially, while patriotism was. Just look into output of movies before war, with nevsky and grozny pics. It’s fairly obvious what they are doing and why: they are telling kulaks and assorted declassed elements - look, at least we are russians, we can kill any invasion.
Country is garbage heap invented whole cloth after feudalism has finished dividing finite land. What is one’s country if you are born in Lorraine?
People is one thing, you can like your place of growing up (as in location and people), people like remembering childhood. but being proud of kings who fucked over all your ancestry requires truly mesmerizing leap to be considered desirable.
Class solidarity could address it, with indifference to place of birth. But alas, the germany got fucked
Stalin referred to the Russian nation as the "elder brother" among the constituent republics. The New Soviet man was integral to forming the Soviet patriotism in both its many constituent national contexts & in the overall production of Soviet national identity
Marx was born in Trier which is in the "Sar-Lor-Lux" region, and is inherently a mishmash of Francophone & Germanic influences. But Marx was German
Patriotic socialism has nothing to do with being proud of kings
East Germany was patriotic in the Cold War period
Yes, and I’m again telling you the reason why stalin did it: it was class glue to hold on till the war, or the vlasov affair prolly would have been much worse.
You don’t need patriotism, ffs, worker solidarity isn’t patriotism, and worker pride (so to say) isn’t patriotism.
The Soviet Union took shortcut and it backfired 50 years later when shortcut engineers were purged, and nomenklatura decided that all was fine, we should continue. considering the boomer state in eastern europe - it backfired everywhere