As a former imperial troop... I don't remember all of the citizens of Nazi Germany being marched into gas chambers after the USSR liberated Germany. It wouldn't surprise me if there were far more Nazi troops immediately executed during the liberation, but I also don't remember the entirety of the Nazi military being fed into wood chippers.
So yeah, as a dumbshit poor white trash 17 year old who signed up through the delayed entry program, I kinda have to support the "treat us as the Nazi's were treated for their genocide" mindset.
I mean yeah. Communists aren't nazis. The USSR conducted extensive background checks on the soldiers of the nazi military to prosecute any war criminals for their crimes against humanity.
This isn't saying there's a clean nor permanently stained German military - it was shades on the slider. An example of this was that during the nazi campaign east in the "liebensraum" phase there were both SS and general army battalions engaged in genocide of entire villages. There was also a few battalions that either did not participate ( their commanders actually had a moral backbone). The Soviet investigation into nazi warcrimes would gather evidence of either case and make a judgment to either prosecute the soldiers involved or pardon them.
A more contemporary version would be looking into the service history of soldiers and seeing what careers they lead and their political associations are. An infantryman that was stationed in FOB bumfucksville Valley, Iraq where the most illegal thing he did was drink bootleg rotgut and work out the entire time and has no political associations as a dumb boot that checked out of politics to watch his team on Sundays would be considered pardonable whereas the logistics guy that spent his entire career counting the grooves on rifle handgrips and giving briefings to dipshit officers on the importance of not loosing equipment but has right-militia associations and is suspected of smuggling military equipment out to them would face further investigation and possibly prison if not execution depending on circumstances.
Making sweeping condemnations or pardons is not the communist way. Scientific examination of the evidence on all issues is.
the logistics guy that spent his entire career counting the grooves on rifle handgrips and giving briefings to dipshit officers on the importance of not loosing equipment but has right-militia associations and is suspected of smuggling military equipment out to them
And I can say for a fact I never mentioned nazi battalion commanders. You and that 2 day sus account are, intentionally or not, misinterpreting my phrasing and making assumptions based on thosr misinterpretions. And if that is the case then I apologize for not making a clear distinction in my sentence.
Back to the topic itself, field commanders that did not participate in the eastern genocide, ranging from polish repressions, to the Belarusian "village relocating", and so forth, belonged, insofar as I am aware, to the German army command structure, and not the parallel nazi party paramilitary SS command structure. This was to illustrate that regardless of the fact the entire organization of the German army followed the nazi party's orders eastwards and participated and even reveled in the genocidal project the fascists were orchestrating, after the war was won careful examinations in the records of the surviving German military to properly judge and prosecute the war criminals and fascists on the basis of their crimes against the Soviet people. An example of sorting out said war criminals from the general soldiery would be as listed above.
I'll wrap this up by saying if you continue to ignore the overall bulk of my writing on the topic and focus on the misunderstanding after I, hopefully, corrected the misunderstanding then I'll have to interpret any further conversation as being in complete bad faith and I'll have to ask you to disengage in this conversation. I genuinely hope it doesn't come to this.
Because there weren't any nazi commanders. There were German army commanders, yet those were few and far between and often purged for their humanity.
Edit: wait I'm not even talking about army commanders, aka the big beautiful generals :trump-anguish: but about battalion commanders! Whole different meaning there since army commanders are strategic level officers that engage in more political fighting than frontline fighting whereas battalion commanders are the last officer grade that engages in frontline fighting and is generally less politically involved (unless they're jockeying for a promotion). Was this entire thread the culmination of a misunderstanding of military organizing? Probably lol
2 day account trying to say how things are done around here :lmayo:
If you can't accept the historical fact that the Soviet Union didn't mass execute the entire German military after they liberated east Germany and instead engaged in a scientific effort to sort out the war criminals and fascists from the rest of the military to face execution, and that we should follow their example - all I can say is you're a fucking ultra.
Just because you keep repeating the same lie doesn't make it true. Keep it up goebbels maybe if you say it enough times people will actually believe you
Being a willing commander ,and too a lesser extend grunt ,on a genocidal and enslavement against an entire race of people war of aggression 2000 miles from home while civilian holocaust of tens of millions of people is happening around you perpetrated by 95% of your brothers in arms makes you indeed permanently stained and unclean. You dont have to rape women or execute every civilian you see.
There where shades on a slider but even in the outmost edges of it there certainly werent "clean" whermacht soldiers and commanders "with moral backbones". Shades still started with almost black into pitch ,zero photon reflecting, black
Uh huh, I really don't give a shit about this continual moral harping on over the fucking army of nazi germany.
I've made my point over and over that this is a discussion over how the Soviet union, after they liberated east germany, processed the surrendered German army to filter out war criminals and fascists from among their ranks in order to demoralize and reintegrate them without having to worry about a fascist uprising after the war with the above example as being a possible gauge for execution, imprisonment, reeducation, or reintegration.
If you want to discuss that then I'm down, but if you're going to try to argue about what shade of vanta or coal or super or soot black you think best suits the nazis, then go argue with someone else.
The Soviets killed a bunch of Nazi soldiers after they were captured (fucking good) and put a lot more into their gulag system for 4-10 years where they either died or ended up reeducated. Nazi soldiers were not treated well, though said Nazis were trying to genocide all kinds of groups, including settler-colonizing Russia, and burned, raped, and pillaged their way to Stalingrad, so I'm not going to cry over them under any circumstances.
I've been reading up on the early days of the DDR military, and a lot of captured Wehrmacht got reeducated and made emergency police in the occupation zones while things got sorted. Like the Soviets showed mercy to nazi pawns more than I would be willing to.
Like Alaskaball pointed out extreme background checks on all US soldiers, draft or not, seeing the actively participated in war crimes and crimes against humanity in any and all of the past and present US wars and punishment accordingly should be the way. For the rest radicalization/re-education till they can recognize the error of their involvement and then actively being comrades is a good line to draw
This is better executed the closer to us the conflict is. For lets say Vietnam we cant do any such thing at this point but when talking active boots on the ground we do know that a a big chunk, likely a majority was involved in crimes against humanity and war crimes one way or another. And we do know that the vast vast vast majority doesnt regret em or has reconsidered and is proud , hell a big majority % of em voted for Trump and supported every subsequent war. So in this sense treating Vietnam vets as you would have treated nazi soldiers will have you be correct more than often than not
As a former imperial troop... I don't remember all of the citizens of Nazi Germany being marched into gas chambers after the USSR liberated Germany. It wouldn't surprise me if there were far more Nazi troops immediately executed during the liberation, but I also don't remember the entirety of the Nazi military being fed into wood chippers.
So yeah, as a dumbshit poor white trash 17 year old who signed up through the delayed entry program, I kinda have to support the "treat us as the Nazi's were treated for their genocide" mindset.
I mean yeah. Communists aren't nazis. The USSR conducted extensive background checks on the soldiers of the nazi military to prosecute any war criminals for their crimes against humanity.
This isn't saying there's a clean nor permanently stained German military - it was shades on the slider. An example of this was that during the nazi campaign east in the "liebensraum" phase there were both SS and general army battalions engaged in genocide of entire villages. There was also a few battalions that either did not participate ( their commanders actually had a moral backbone). The Soviet investigation into nazi warcrimes would gather evidence of either case and make a judgment to either prosecute the soldiers involved or pardon them.
A more contemporary version would be looking into the service history of soldiers and seeing what careers they lead and their political associations are. An infantryman that was stationed in FOB bumfucksville Valley, Iraq where the most illegal thing he did was drink bootleg rotgut and work out the entire time and has no political associations as a dumb boot that checked out of politics to watch his team on Sundays would be considered pardonable whereas the logistics guy that spent his entire career counting the grooves on rifle handgrips and giving briefings to dipshit officers on the importance of not loosing equipment but has right-militia associations and is suspected of smuggling military equipment out to them would face further investigation and possibly prison if not execution depending on circumstances.
Making sweeping condemnations or pardons is not the communist way. Scientific examination of the evidence on all issues is.
Sgt. Contreras of the NCR
Lmao his wiki entry bruh.
Also for real though there's actually soldiers in military logistics doing this for reals and it legit scares the shit out of me .
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And I can say for a fact I never mentioned nazi battalion commanders. You and that 2 day sus account are, intentionally or not, misinterpreting my phrasing and making assumptions based on thosr misinterpretions. And if that is the case then I apologize for not making a clear distinction in my sentence.
Back to the topic itself, field commanders that did not participate in the eastern genocide, ranging from polish repressions, to the Belarusian "village relocating", and so forth, belonged, insofar as I am aware, to the German army command structure, and not the parallel nazi party paramilitary SS command structure. This was to illustrate that regardless of the fact the entire organization of the German army followed the nazi party's orders eastwards and participated and even reveled in the genocidal project the fascists were orchestrating, after the war was won careful examinations in the records of the surviving German military to properly judge and prosecute the war criminals and fascists on the basis of their crimes against the Soviet people. An example of sorting out said war criminals from the general soldiery would be as listed above.
I'll wrap this up by saying if you continue to ignore the overall bulk of my writing on the topic and focus on the misunderstanding after I, hopefully, corrected the misunderstanding then I'll have to interpret any further conversation as being in complete bad faith and I'll have to ask you to disengage in this conversation. I genuinely hope it doesn't come to this.
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It's alright, as long as we correct misunderstandings I can't hold it against anyone for getting tilted at me getting tilted over tilted shit
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Because there weren't any nazi commanders. There were German army commanders, yet those were few and far between and often purged for their humanity.
Edit: wait I'm not even talking about army commanders, aka the big beautiful generals :trump-anguish: but about battalion commanders! Whole different meaning there since army commanders are strategic level officers that engage in more political fighting than frontline fighting whereas battalion commanders are the last officer grade that engages in frontline fighting and is generally less politically involved (unless they're jockeying for a promotion). Was this entire thread the culmination of a misunderstanding of military organizing? Probably lol
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2 day account trying to say how things are done around here :lmayo:
If you can't accept the historical fact that the Soviet Union didn't mass execute the entire German military after they liberated east Germany and instead engaged in a scientific effort to sort out the war criminals and fascists from the rest of the military to face execution, and that we should follow their example - all I can say is you're a fucking ultra.
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:doubt:
Okay ban evader bye bye :mao-wave:
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Uh huh. Gonna look forward to seeing your cheeks get clapped
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Just because you keep repeating the same lie doesn't make it true. Keep it up goebbels maybe if you say it enough times people will actually believe you
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You know I literally fixed it right before you sent that lol... unless there's another typo that needs purging.
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Being a willing commander ,and too a lesser extend grunt ,on a genocidal and enslavement against an entire race of people war of aggression 2000 miles from home while civilian holocaust of tens of millions of people is happening around you perpetrated by 95% of your brothers in arms makes you indeed permanently stained and unclean. You dont have to rape women or execute every civilian you see.
There where shades on a slider but even in the outmost edges of it there certainly werent "clean" whermacht soldiers and commanders "with moral backbones". Shades still started with almost black into pitch ,zero photon reflecting, black
Uh huh, I really don't give a shit about this continual moral harping on over the fucking army of nazi germany.
I've made my point over and over that this is a discussion over how the Soviet union, after they liberated east germany, processed the surrendered German army to filter out war criminals and fascists from among their ranks in order to demoralize and reintegrate them without having to worry about a fascist uprising after the war with the above example as being a possible gauge for execution, imprisonment, reeducation, or reintegration.
If you want to discuss that then I'm down, but if you're going to try to argue about what shade of vanta or coal or super or soot black you think best suits the nazis, then go argue with someone else.
:07: for coming around and winding up on the right side of things.
I didn't enlist out of some patriotic duty or something, I was just poor and terrified about not being able to pay for college.
The Army experience was both horribly disappointing and enlightening in a bunch of different ways though.
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In Palestine and Israel, the tendency for former IDF members to grandstand about their traumas and regrets is called "shoot and cry"
It's to mock how many seemingly Palestine-sympathetic Israelis want therapy more than real justice.
The Soviets killed a bunch of Nazi soldiers after they were captured (fucking good) and put a lot more into their gulag system for 4-10 years where they either died or ended up reeducated. Nazi soldiers were not treated well, though said Nazis were trying to genocide all kinds of groups, including settler-colonizing Russia, and burned, raped, and pillaged their way to Stalingrad, so I'm not going to cry over them under any circumstances.
I've been reading up on the early days of the DDR military, and a lot of captured Wehrmacht got reeducated and made emergency police in the occupation zones while things got sorted. Like the Soviets showed mercy to nazi pawns more than I would be willing to.
Like Alaskaball pointed out extreme background checks on all US soldiers, draft or not, seeing the actively participated in war crimes and crimes against humanity in any and all of the past and present US wars and punishment accordingly should be the way. For the rest radicalization/re-education till they can recognize the error of their involvement and then actively being comrades is a good line to draw
This is better executed the closer to us the conflict is. For lets say Vietnam we cant do any such thing at this point but when talking active boots on the ground we do know that a a big chunk, likely a majority was involved in crimes against humanity and war crimes one way or another. And we do know that the vast vast vast majority doesnt regret em or has reconsidered and is proud , hell a big majority % of em voted for Trump and supported every subsequent war. So in this sense treating Vietnam vets as you would have treated nazi soldiers will have you be correct more than often than not