I see from the /r/antiwork dunktank threads that most of you don't understand the irl anarchist movement, so ask me anything, let's learn.
Recc reading for what these guys actually believe
I see from the /r/antiwork dunktank threads that most of you don't understand the irl anarchist movement, so ask me anything, let's learn.
Recc reading for what these guys actually believe
I don't. The message reads as "let's do petty crimes that will get us locked in prison when caught instead of unionizing and organizing." Indistinguishable from fed posting.
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Sufficient unionizing and organizing is probably a good bet for a ticket to jail in America, too.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm a wob, but the media and security state are so captured by corporate/oligarch interests that I don't think the IWW or any other union org is going to make any real headway in the continental USA.
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I'm not discounting organizing, I'm a member of an org.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm a member of the IWW and I am realistic about what that means in America. I'm saying I don't think unions or vanguard parties will survive in America if they seem at all influential. That isn't stopping me from being a union member but it does mean I'm not expecting a worker's revolution in the imperial core - that's why I'm mostly an anarchist. If the revolution happens it will start in the 'third world' or from AES countries, best we can do in the core is survive and try to hobble the beast.
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:left-unity-2:
Being in prison is not incompatible with withholding your labor :joker-troll:
Having worked with guys with felonies for most of my life (kinda impossible not to in this country honestly), going to prison is in no way withholding your labor, and in fact, makes you more legally exploitable by the state.
Even if you try to withhold your labor (which, good luck, between the psychological problem of being bored and a social need to stay either the good side of the guards or gangs, either of whom require underpaid labor as a sign of deference) as soon as you are out your labor is in a more precarious position than ever with felons making up the majority of the homeless population.
Now, you might be young and clever, and can bounce that outside cat :data-outdoor-cat: shit for awhile, but eventually, you might make a mistake, slip up, and then the hammer comes down again to throw you back into that prison system to start over again.
Sorry for the rant, I don't think you believe this, but I didn't see it being said.
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Not half as fast as some of the advice or examples given in this essay like "steal half of the admissions money if you're a ticket taker". My brother did a year in prison for doing something similar at work and it had a major and immediate negative impact on his life.
No doubt there are steep consequences, and that sucks about your brother. I hope he's doing well.
Do we actually have documentation on the kind of things feds post? I'd be really curious to see it.
Purely from what you and supporters are posting the last couple of hours, the message is entirely convenient to a conservative agenda.
They want a chaotic social and political environment, they believe it's necessary to their agenda and that it's how they'll thrive. They don't want a peaceful, progressing social and cultural environment. They don't want a serene society where the natural result is oppressed members feeling empowered enough to demand equality. They want a tense, stressed society where everyone is walking around strapped and maybe on uppers.
It's the same geopolitically imo, the US does not want a calm global economy with free trade anymore. They'll lose position to China. They prefer to reign in chaos.
I mean, responses to petty crime and rebellion will be automated pretty soon. Better to expend your energies in organizing to take control of automation, than to try and fight the robots + cameras.
Is there any scenario where an organization in the US got enough power that it might threaten automation or the oligarchs in general that doesn't result in the org either being fully co-opted at the top level by feds or with the leaders dead or in prison? I can't see one, personally.
That why we chip away with a thousand smaller organizations that loosely work together. It's less efficient, but makes it much more difficult to infiltrate and disable them.
I think the black panthers would count as a "smaller" regional org, and we all know what the feds did to them. I just don't see any vanguard party or parties situation working from within the panopticon.
Things seem to be swinging twords conditions that would make that possible. Its not there yet though.
Unfortunately I don't think the security apparatus has any plans on weakening their grip, regardless of what the people think. State security forces have been used in combat against striking union workers in the past and I have no doubt that option will still be on the table for as long as I live.
They are a lot less competent now. Or at least they look that way.
One thing is for sure, people on the left are a bit more prudent about opsec and I hope more skeptical of people suggesting doing adventurism, but the recent triumphs of state secret police (the governor kidnapping farce, pretty sure jan 6th) suggest they're still on their bullshit. Even the Austin Red Guard are a pretty good example - everybody on the left seems to be on the same page about them being feds but libs and right wingers fully believe they're genuine leftists doing stupid things.
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It's true, I've seen it happen. Big groups on the other hand tend to be really bad at holding leadership or even membership accountable and changing in the face of criticism.
Both are neccessary at different times
Nice sentence fucker :)
tbh yes, I can see positive scenarios, but maybe I'm delusional.
I don't see any positivity coming from the message coming across the last couple of hours here tho.
I'm not being glib about this, it's probably a common reaction, but if you feel like there's nothing for you but petty crime and rebellion, why not find somewhere to live some semblance of a dignified life, with intergenerational contact. It's gotta be better than dashing yourself against an indifferent machine.
...do I need a passport and a visa to find this place?
Only you know what you need.
Can you visualize a scenario where you could live a worthy life outside the core?
This is a bit too hand wavy. The point I was implying was, if we need a bunch of money and a visa to find such a place it's not really a practical goal for most of us here.
But the question remains. It's worth thinking about.
I guess I wasn't clear, I'm pretty far beyond "can I visualize living a worthy life outside the core" and I'm into "is it at all feasible or practical to pursue this goal". I'm also pretty sure it's neither feasible nor practical.
Feasible or practical from what perspective? People are motivated to move from the periphery to the core every day, with nothing. A tougher life change generally. Surely the reverse is possible if the only alternative is petty crime and rebellion.
Don't want to come across as confrontational, it's fine if you don't want to discuss granular details or personal circumstances. I do think that it's possible for motivated people to move from the core to live a worthy life, fwiw.
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I don't know your life and you don't know mine. If we're both posting here let's assume some good faith.
It's a pretty easy assumption to make since I keep pointing out that it's expensive to move to another country and you keep brushing past it like cost is not something you really worry about.
Not sure how productive this converstation can be at this stage.
It seems like you really want me to be bougie or something.
I'm saying that people make the more difficult + costly migration to the core all the time. We should be able to at least visualize doing the opposite if we believe the only alternative is a life of petty crimes and ineffective rebellion.
The imperial core requires a constant influx of workers whose immigration status renders them helpless, so yes, it is relatively easy to come to the USA on a work visa. That is not how it works in reverse unless I guess you want to be a very bad english teacher in an asian country on a temporary visa (I do not), like I keep telling you. You have not woken me up to the idea of living in a different nation, I have been thinking about that since I was a teenager and have done the research. I keep telling you I lack the desirable profession and financial security to do this because that is the reality, I am not speculating, I have done my research. If you don't want to look bougie then maybe take it into consideration when people tell you their financial situation precludes them from doing a thing you seem to be speculating about.
edit: like seriously, there are calculators that give you a real quick rundown of your eligibility for immigration, I'm not eligible, please internalize this information before replying about just imagining the possibility or some other "the secret" shit
We're going in circles here.
You're saying that shit's fucked and there's nothing but a life of crimes and rebellion for those born in the core.
I'm saying that if you believe that, it should be enough motivation to move from the core and live a worthy life somewhere else. Anywhere else, surely.
You're saying that's not possible for you in particular because the immigration eligibilty webpage said no. Not a good attitude for someone preparing for a life of crimes and rebellion tbh.
I'm maintaining that it's absolutely possible to move from the core. People do it every day, without the desirable professions and financial security you seem to need. Maybe you have higher requirements than these people.
You're making a lot of silly assumptions and your assertions are not worth regarding. This hasn't been a worthwhile engagement, but keep telling people to imagine being somewhere else or whatever "the secret" level shit you're on.
edit: also please be aware your assertions amount to bourgeois jacketing yourself, maybe make a new account to prevent anyone from realizing you're exempt from cost analysis
Have you ever looked into immigration requirements? They're almost universally pretty steep. If I was the kind of desired worker that grants eligible status to emigrate to most countries, I'd be financially comfortable here in the core. I'm also pretty sure being a white american moving to another country and trying to agitate or organize is pretty much "white savior" bullshit. The best thing we in the core can do to as far as I can tell is to contribute to weakening the oligarchy.
It's generally possible for english speakers to move from the core and live a local standard of living. It isn't as pretty as we're used to but we're talking about a worthy alternative to a life of futile gestures. The saviour bullshit, to me, is the type of resistance that you seem to be advocating.
Fully agree that people who choose to remain in the core should contribute to weakening the oligarchy. I don't think crimes + rebellion will weaken anything.
Yeah possible and "affordable" are not the same thing.
Because most of these people are queer and intergenerational contact is often out of the question
It's a fair point, but not a dead end imo. Even in a rural conservative area.
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I'm certainly not a nihilist. I'm an IWW member, and I'm also a realist with my eyes open.
There are post leftists who advocate taking over the MoP, Fredy Perlman (pre primitivist turn) and other post situationists especially. He talked about how during periods of revolutionary upheaval, we can't trust the workers unions or parties to seize the MoP, so it's up to "handfuls of madmen" to rush into the factories and start producing things with the goal of giving them to revolutionaries in the streets and universities the same way farmers started producing food for them during mai 68.
They look around for people susceptible to that kind of message and then DM them and try to convince them to go through with it, see the case of the people trying to kidnap the Michigan governor. There were like 2 actual chuds and 6 feds with them egging them on. ALAB podcast had a good episode on it. That said, i'd guess they probably dont bother with trying to get people to steal from their job, unless your part of an org or something and they want some pretext to investigate you. The spy cops thing in the UK also has some examples of what undercover cops do. You might be able to pull some examples of actual fed posts from court cases, but that sounds like too much work.
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