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  • Mrtryfe [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    Lol, define again what the pre-modern Weather Underground did again? Why were the Panthers ambivalent to some of the shit WU was pulling? And how about where prominent WU members now reside?

      • Mrtryfe [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        You keep talking about what you feel, and what you want. If you want a moment of catharsis, by all means go out and become the martyr you hope to become. Unfortunately, it's clear that the majority of people you're feeling angry on behalf of, especially black folks, aren't at that point yet. Agitators like MLK, Malcolm, and Newton were killed for not even getting to the point you want to get, and you think some nerds on the internet have a chance? That's why I brought up the point about WU, whose high ranking members just casually entered bourgeoisie society after having done some bombings. How in the fuck is Awlaki's son being killed OK for tangentially having relation to his father's work, but Bill Ayers can get a job at UIC and now collect retirement money?

        It's not about "snide and literate" debates. It's about what people have at stake. I come from a country where people still don't riot despite living on a dollar a day, and in some of the worst slums you could imagine. What concept of consciousness do you think those people have? Fuck, I had no concept of anything outside of capitalism until I hit 25 years of age, and that only occurred after I'd finally gotten a decent job where I could pay rent. When I was broke down bad, I wasn't thinking about Marx, etc. Now you have a place like the US, which despite its internal issues, still gives people the illusion that they can hold economic power with no strings attached.

        Just to give you some sense, I live in section 8 housing currently. 70% of this building is black. Many of these people participated in the protests and riots, but there was also a huge chunk of them that didn't. Some were apathetic to it all, some believed BLM was a psyop. Some of those that did protest were devoid of any real understanding of the issues, but had the right heart. Some of them were radlibs or older folks who told people to vote. And some of them were just looking to go out and rob some stores and stick up opposition gang members. Getting all of these people on the same page to go out and riot is an achievement, but how do you propose a fractured unit like this to eventually reach a general strand of Marxist thought (including people virulently opposed to socialist thought), and in a short period of time, too?

        If you're looking for hard and fast solutions, you're out of luck. I could sit here and give you the same spiel about grassroots mandates and all of that, but I'm sure you knew all about that. But that's really all we have. The left in this country has zero power, and its biggest avatars continually get captured by the same system they want to resist. I'm not at Mark Fisher levels of capitalist realism yet, but it's bleak. The only thing I can say is that the chances of trying a violent struggle session right now would be completely pointless. We'd get fucking demolished in the blink of an eye. We're stuck, and all we have is the long game. Unless you can predict something that will wake the masses from their slumber in one of the most polarized societies in history, I don't know what other route there is. I wake up everyday feeling the same as you do, until I go next door and look at my neighbor's kids and wonder if he'll join me in that type of struggle. This is why I brought up the example of the Black Panthers being cautious with WU. Could they have afforded to be so radical in their approach at the stage they were in? And they were more advanced in their consciousness than America as a whole now. Kwame Ture felt the full ire of the FBI and had to dip the country. Should he have just stayed and become another martyr like Huey? It's a hard question to ask of someone. What do you suppose happens to us?

        If I came off as condescending, my bad. I'm not looking sling shit for the sake of it.

          • Mrtryfe [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            Never implied that you had a death drive. If you went out and got killed today, it would be understandable, even if it might not accomplish anything. There's legitimate frustration behind it due to understanding the current paralysis we find ourselves in. Bit different from not wearing a mask to own the libs