I don't really like glocks, got my eyes on a Sig P239 Enhanced Elite 9mm, but also kinda like the Berettas for not being a burgerland company, any other brands I should be looking at, whats the least chuddiest company, I looked at the HK site and my god, they have American flags everywhere and MAGA sales.
ETA: Im in 'Commiefornia' so any gun suggestions should be able to be sold here.
No ethical consumption under capitalism blah blah blah, but ESPECIALLY for guns. They are made for war and cops; civilian market is an afterthought. Buy used model of whatever fits your hand best. Maybe don't buy literally from Israel Weapon Industries, or buy through a leftist reseller if it really floats your boat, but I don't think you're gonna find much meaningful difference between the manufacturers.
but I don't think you're gonna find much meaningful difference between the manufacturers.
American pistol brands/models tend to be terrible compared to European oneshey I'm rockin a $200 Taurus I'm not judging quality here
You should never buy a gun based on its chud status. It’s a tool and it’s here to serve a function. Plus that’s a battle I’ve tried to fight and got exhausted doing. Just buy the one you like, which after it’s all said and done, will probably be a Glock.
If after reading that you’re still not convinced, the only thing I’ll say is sig is easily the most chud of all of these at the moment because they won the NGSW contract for the army and also their pistols have been adopted by the army and marine corp.
Yeah. Can't really go wrong with a glock. they're as reliable as any mechanical device can be, there's tons of after-market parts and crap, everyone knows how to use them.
Yup it’s the biggest reason I recommend them. Everyone suggesting boutique guns is wrong imho. You will not find a pistol that is more ubiquitous that the Glock. There are tons of parts, you can always find videos about them if you have a question, and most importantly everyone uses them so magazines are plentiful.
And you know that SIG contract isn't going to get dropped, otherwise there's a risk of an accidental discharge.
All gun manufacturers are MIC fascists. Get a gun that works for you. There aren't any guns with good politics.
For home defense skip the gun and get one of those giant 24oz canisters of pepper spray. You're much more likely to hurt yourself or someone else with a "home defense" gun than you ever are to stop a burglar. Pepper spray has a large number of advantages - You don't have to aim much, if you're wrong then someone is very upset at you and not dead, it's easy to use. Another big thing - Psychologically most people don't want to shoot an intruder. They want to scare them, tell them to leave, make them go away. Folks often don't shoot, which means now there's a loaded weapon in the situation that could be used against you, or whatever. You don't have to worry about that with pepper spray. If someone's in your house spray them down like it's a wet-t-shirt-contest of pain. No one's gonna die, or even really be injured, and while they might want to die now they'll be fine in a day or two.
Probably less legal bullshit to worry about, too, but I have no idea what self defense laws are in california. But generally speaking not killing people and not leaving permanent injuries is better, legally.
If you do want a gun, cali has a list of which guns you're allowed to own and afaik it's not a terribly long list, so you're going to have to start from there.
Honestly, when it comes to guns, they're all fucking chud companies. They're all making money off of defense and/or cop contracts, and marketing themselves in the chuddiest way possible. Even imported AK's were sold by chud companies when those were still common. So long as it doesn't have explicit chud / fash symbols, that's about as good as you get when it comes to guns. I would concentrate more on your budget and needs.
Sig makes good guns. If you like those and it won't break the bank, they'll shoot forever as long as you maintain them.
Sigs quality has gone way down and I would think it’s mostly because they have the most current government contracts for their SPEAR rifle and their 320 style pistol. They don’t have to worry about regular customer services anymore really so I doubt this will change for the foreseeable future.
Ah, that makes sense. I haven't been in the market for a new gun in a while, so thanks. I'll probably go CZ in the future.
No problem. If you look up the sig 300 (320, 365 etc.) series on gun forum and stuff you’ll see a lot of people with defective guns.
Didn’t they or the government get sued by Glock because the Sig pistol was chosen by the military before the gun trials were even concluded? Lmao. Definitely nothing shady going on there!
Apparently Sig won the contract before the final performance tests were performed with their guns and Glock’s. The military concluded Sig had a marginal performance advantage, but their price was also like $100 million cheaper compared to Glock’s lol.
First, you should probably get a very good idea of what you want by going to a shooting range and trying out different guns. You should also learn gun safety and how to shoot before buying a gun. A local lefty gun club is a good place to start to finding classes, hangouts, and places to buy locally. Re: supporting chuds, consider buying used, as this distances you from primary production.
Everyone already said it, but you’re thinking about this wrong.
That said no matter what 9mm double stack striker fired pistol you get, set aside money to get a light, night sights or an optic that works good in the dark and possibly a suppressor (can’t rember if you can get nfa items in ca).
E: alternately if you know you’re not gonna practice, then get a light and night sights for your revolver.
Get a compact Glock, 9mm. Probably the g21.
Then get an optic.
Then replace the trigger.
I don't like my Glock. It is the most common handgun in America. You will find after market parts. You will be able to get magazines. You will be able to get carbines that receive Glock magazines. If you were to ever be in a shit hits the fan situation and you need to find ammo in an unexpected situation, 9mm/.556 is the most common round. You will be more likely to find like minded people who use this weapon and were you to be in a situation, you could share ammo/magazines.
I recommend handguns for home defense. Most encounters with firearms are less than ten yards which is within effective handgun range. They are far easier to conceal than an AR build. You won't be sticking your barrel around corners with a handgun. You can conceal carry a handgun and keep the element of surprise. They can be fired one handed.
So for your first gun, I (and others I know) recommend the Glock. That being said the people I know have a perspective on why we own firearms and our concern is very much a shit hits the fan anticipation in which case finding parts, magazines and ammunition is of chief concern to keep the gun functioning.
Or get a good gun and avoid all those “upgrades” in the first place. The Glock patent has been public for decades now.
The CZ P-10 has everything Glock has to offer plus better triggers and sights out the box. But OP doesn’t like Glocks, so perhaps an M&P 2.0 which has a hinged trigger and a thumb safety (which is usually cheaper).
I say this a 2.0 owner: get the P-10C when it’s on sale. $290 + shipping + FFL transfer will probably be below $350 for an excellent gun. I’m on r/gundeals right now and and a Glock 21 Gen 5 is $620 + shipping + FFL. LMAO. And you gotta spend another couple hundred to get it to “perfection.” With the ~$300 you’d save with the CZ, you can buy 1000 rounds of ammo to practice with.
The only things Glock has to offer are wide usage by cops, soldiers, civilians, criminals which means:
- more aftermarket parts
- more parts in the wild
- more “field reports” (I.e. how many people have been murdered by the state and how reliable was the gun when it was done)
Personally I don’t trust aftermarket internals for a defensive gun. Whatever the reasons, cops and soldiers aren’t usually permitted to modify their weapons so we don’t get to see the same reliability comparisons with OEM.
Having spare parts is nice, especially in a SHTF situation, but most of us aren’t in that situation so we shouldn’t be worried about scavenging for parts, especially for a newbie like OP.
Also, I trust CZ’s Glock clone to have the same reliability as the real Glock that’s been reported for decades. It might sound hypocritical to trust a clone of a gun over a clone of its parts, but CZ is a reputable company that has been making stuff for almost a century now. And again, the Glock patent is public and the P-10C doesn’t deviate too far from that whereas aftermarket parts do deviate from it.
I don't actually disagree with most of your analysis. A good gun is actually far better, imo, to having a generic shitty one. I hate my glock, I like my beretta much better, it fits better, the trigger is better, the iron sights are better etc. But my recommendation for a first gun is to get one that covers as many scenarios as possible while adequately serving the purpose of the user. And I bought my beretta first, I'm trying to give advice that I learned from not buying a glock first. As an example, I still cannot find standard magazines for my beretta px4 storm in a gun store (or at a gun show). I have to order them. So my recommendation for someone new is to not worry about being able to find parts/ammo/whatever for your first pistol.
People in vulnerable communities might be more concerned with SHTF situations. I'm not trying to dismiss your argument here. I'm trying to say that some people might think they may have to scavenge magazines from trucks with certain stickers on them in the very near future. I could give many examples. I don't think I have to, I've seen you posting.
I think if you're worried about using guns on a person, your first two should be a glock in 9mm and an AR in 556.
All this is my opinion but I do think its worth discussing. No animosity here.
Same here. I just dislike Glocks, not because it’s unreliable, but because it’s overpriced for what it offers. If they dropped the price down then I’d be recommending it to everyone as well
Word. It's silly to say about glocks but everything about glocks that isn't the actual function of the gun sucks.
I agree, but to be clear, I bought 3 handguns in California and all of them cost ~500 (back in the late 2010s). Including the glock.
Since then, as I've moved around to different states a bit, I have been able to easily find glock magazines that California disallows. I haven't been able to find magazines in any of 4 states 2 of which are very "2a friendly" for the other pistols. Not that I bought them. I am a law abiding citizen that respects the rule of law, officer. Did you know that there are crazy law breaking assholes who make 50 round drum magazines for glocks? I'd report them to the proper authorities but I only saw those shenanigans on a walmart table at a gun show, I don't think I even remember where the show was.
Whatever the reasons, cops and soldiers aren’t usually permitted to modify their weapons so we don’t get to see the same reliability comparisons with OEM.
Standardization and interoperability is important for armies. When a soldier's gun gets broken it goes to an armorer and the armorer has to figure out what the grunt did to break their gun. If every single gun is the same that's a lot easier to do. It also helps with training, parts, whatever. If everyone trains on the same gun you can just throw a gun at them and they know what to do.
It's not really as much of a thing for individuals. You'll be doing your own repairs or taking it to a gunsmith who isn't under the same constraints as a military armorer. If you decide to go do sketchy militia stuff with your buddies then you should all agree to get ARs that use AR magazines in 5.56 (and maybe standardize what load of 5.56 you're using ie M193 or 885 or whatever).
All that said, I'm a CZ fan too, I just tell people to get a glock bc you really can't fuck up walking in and saying "gimme a glock".
This. Being able to throw a mag to your buddy is a greatly underestimated advantage of getting the most boring and common gun you can. I usually tell people AR - glock - any shotgun and after you've got those three start worrying about guns you like or whatever.
If you are looking for a firearm for home defense and are not conceal carrying it, you should buy a basic AR-15
Pistols take more training to shoot competently compared to rifles
If you live near other people, you have to worry about the bullets going through walls, which they will. A lot of people use a pump shotgun with goose shot, meaning larger bird shot. That will only go through like 1 interior wall instead of 5-10, but it will completely destroy anyone who is close enough to be in your house
Yes but a pump shotgun has a manual of arms that you need to practice, and semis do exist but then you need to find loads that work for defense but don't over penetrate. I think the rounds I use for my VEPR in 3 gun are quail loads or field loads and 7&1/2oz.
Get an AR-15, it's a lot more fun for target shooting than a pistol. Go with featureless, too, because fixed magazine is a pain.
Yeah, CA is no longer the state with the most restrictive gun laws. There are a few more restrictive, but I think WA takes the cake with the breadth of it's bans.
You can. I would suggest you probably should do more reading about california firearms laws before you put money down. they're really really weird but you can still get ARs in weird california specific configurations.
You could get an AR-10 to make that lil' bitty California magazine go a longer way. It's just an AR-15 that shoots .308 rounds. Bit more kick but not to a painful degree at all, it's a mid-sized cartridge
I like my CZ P10C. In general I think CZ is slept on in the us. It's a great shooting gun, at decent price. I ended up putting different sights (night sights) and a better trigger in it. But that was just personal preference and not a necessity.
The CZ is very slept on. The P-10 costs a third of a Glock and already comes with all the bells and whistles you have to spend hundreds on with a Glock. OP doesn’t like Glock, not sure why, but if it’s the trigger then they might not like the CZ.
Did CZ somehow become the unofficial official gun of American commies? I'm a CZ fan too.
My favorite for home defense is my Smith and wesson M&P 9mm. Remember to use hollow points for home defense, much less like to penetrate walls than normal ammo. Also 9mm will stop someone (without body armor) just as well as .45 with less penetrative power, again something you want when ever you're in close quarters with non-coms
.45 is reactionary and counter-revolutionary. I will elaborate. For a long time. 1 of 10340
You should be able to find a cheap shotgun anywhere. 12 Guage is the real home defence situation. You should practice with it as well.
if you want to become a gun person there might be a socialist rifle associate somewhat near you.Harder to find ever since they banned norinco. Days of cheap surplus ammo and AKs are long gone unless you live in Canada, where you can still get the Type 81 and Type 97, though that's looking short lived too.
they banned norinco.
Can I get a fuck Clinton in the chat? It's okay when we sell rocket launchers to street gangs abroad, but when someone tries to sell rocket launchers to our gangs suddenly it's "Illegal arms trafficking" and "Fuck you america no 50$ shotguns or cheap ammo for you anymore".
If you’re Russian, then maybe you might be able to get a Norinco Glock clone which is not good lol. Otherwise you’re stuck with Tokarev clones
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To piggyback, if you were talking to a comrade who lives in a mid-sized midwestern city and has been thinking about getting a gun on and off for years, what would you say would be an affordable 'generalist' option that would be good to have if things went sideways? I have a toddler so I am very worried about safety, and have generally given up the thought on the grounds that, at the point where I have to defend against intruders I'm probably already fucked, even if being able to coordinate with other workers and perhaps hunt in an emergency are valuable capabilities.
For home defense - Pepper spray
For community defense - AR-15
for hunting - pretty much any cheap bolt action rifle with a half-decent scope on it.
You've got three different use cases that require different kinds of guns.
I thought people hunt with AR-15 because it's such a common platform?
Why do you suggest a bolt-action instead?
Anybody who hunts with an ar-15 should be immediatly ignored.
It's the perfect gun if you want to trade the ability to take a well placed clean shot for the ability to take 6 shots that will ruin the meat around where it hits.
Bolt guns are really cheap. That's mostly it. You can hunt with an AR just fine. You choice of optics and accessories will probably be different. And a bolt-action rifle in a larger or spicier caliber than 5.56 is usually less expensive than getting a large caliber AR. You don't need a larger caliber for hunting, 5.56 works, but .308 or one of the countless other hunting rounds, afaik, is more likely to get a clean kill on the animal.
.308 is a good game cartridge for elk, if you're shooting whitetail sized deer something around a .250 to 30-30 range is going to waste a lot less meat.
