Right? Easy way to do another stimulus round and would have been extremely popular.
Some states did do cash payments, although it was a lower amount (~$200 iirc) since they had lower budgets.
Those programs were, unsurprisingly, extremely successful.
I think one state even gave you a lotto ticket, which I thought was fucked up. That seemed to be almost as effective as actual cash last time I checked, but felt manipulative.
NC did a lottery. What was even more fucked up about it is they kept how they were getting the info super opaque for awhile. Turns out all the first responders who didn't get it at a Walgreens or CVS or whatever didn't get entered and if you didn't subscribe to Walgreens or CVS by phone they just didn't bother to contact you.
It was more of a way to sell private information to convenience stores than anything else.
Exactly. Most people will drop their antivax shit when it clearly benefits their material interests. Has to be paid at federal level so states don’t ratfuck it.
Any hold outs, you pay travel nurses to go visit and figure out wtf is wrong with them. If they have a legit health exemption, make sure that’s noted.
If they don’t, encourage them to get the shot and offer them the money in cash in person so they can see it. Use $50 or $100 bills to drive the point home.
Anyone who still holds out should be locked out of every public space, have groceries delivered to them, internet + cable cut off, and visited weekly by a travel nurse. Do that for a while and anyone who still tantrums, you can then consider forcibly vaccinating.
separate programs: national vaccine passports and potentially a database.
My point was that some people's resistance to the vaccine goes beyond monetary needs. And I don't think it's a small number. They in fact see any form of enticement to take the vaccine as further proof that they shouldn't. At this point, in fact, I think that's most unvaccinated people.
So, again, how do you make sure those people are vaccinated without pointing a gun at their heads?
Material conditions triumph over idealist values. See how long your values and beliefs in the ethereal last in the face of the concrete reality of your kids crying to you that they're hungry and you don't have the money to feed them. How strong is the bedrock of your conspiracy when the landlord is beating on your walls with a letter of eviction?
The economically secure few who's fat affords them the time to stave off their proletarianization grow fewer and fewer, and the number of masses crushed under the capitalist boot continues to grow. It is only through addressing their material needs can crises be overcome.
Fun “SocDem” style mechanism since this is a hypothetical anyway:
you could use this as a way to fine anyone above a certain income bracket (say $200k) who was still unvaccinated. Start off small, but then rapidly compound the rate you’re seizing until it ends with them at the $200k benchmark.
Publicly list the amount being seized and run huge propaganda campaigns showing it being diverted into covering the healthcare costs of everyone with covid. Frame the people who you took the funds from as being hoarders who wanted everyone being helped to suffer.
This is stupid and wonky since you at this point would have already seized their wealth, but would be hilarious to watch happen.
Edit: If I remember right; I’ve read some numbers varying the amount that everyone could equally have in the world as annual income as between $75k-$200k.
Your characterization of the unvaccinated. I think most people who are unvaccinated have fully bought in to conspiracy theories and I don't think money is likely to change their minds.
I think those people would have to be forced at gunpoint.
You keep repeating that gunpoint line, is that what you want to do to solve this? It’s heavy handed when we haven’t really tried that many other social pressures.
Mask / vax mandates in public spaces works pretty well, as does requiring it for employment. Cutting off treats and applying social stigma up until they vaccinate is a strong lever.
The amount of people who have actually quit their jobs over vaccination when push comes to shove is negligible.
It was just exaggeration to say I don't think anything can be done to make them get vaccinated. I don't think there's anything (this) government can do to get people to get vaccinated and reasonably end the pandemic.
We cannot cut off the treats or create any more social pressure. Or at least, the Democrats can't. You can't make the proverbial suburban hot tub salesman fire his employees for not getting vaccinated. You can't make people in East Ditchwater wear a mask. I talk to friends who have visited red areas of the country and people just don't wear masks. How does this white house get those people to wear masks or get vaccinated when they view everything it proposes as an anathema? Half of this country's entire personality is "the opposite of whatever he says". How do you combat that? You can't.
Social pressure + taking away all treats while offering them $4k in cash to get over their shit would work for almost everyone.
Anyone who gets extremely violent / tries to go on a shooting spree, though? Then sure, put them down like the rabid animal they are. That won’t be necessary for almost anyone though.
people refusing to wear masks should be beaten. people refusing to vacc should get an opportunity to vacc but then get thrown on a pillory for schoolchildren to throw lawn darts at.
Enlighten me? I'm thinking "fix" in this case means "compulsory vaccinations administered at gunpoint" but I'm guessing you mean something else?
Pay people $2k for each shot.
Tying the stimulus to getting the vaxx seemed so obvious to me from the beginning, i still can't believe they never did that
Right? Easy way to do another stimulus round and would have been extremely popular.
Some states did do cash payments, although it was a lower amount (~$200 iirc) since they had lower budgets.
Those programs were, unsurprisingly, extremely successful.
I think one state even gave you a lotto ticket, which I thought was fucked up. That seemed to be almost as effective as actual cash last time I checked, but felt manipulative.
Yeah all the states around me did million dollar vaccine lotteries. Kinda fucked up but somewhat effective.
I feel like the vast majority of the antivaxxers are just mildly anti vax. Literally just 500$ would easily buy them out to get vaxxed
NC did a lottery. What was even more fucked up about it is they kept how they were getting the info super opaque for awhile. Turns out all the first responders who didn't get it at a Walgreens or CVS or whatever didn't get entered and if you didn't subscribe to Walgreens or CVS by phone they just didn't bother to contact you.
It was more of a way to sell private information to convenience stores than anything else.
$2k doesn't fix brainworms
Fixes your grocery bill. And that feeds you more than brainworms do
Exactly. Most people will drop their antivax shit when it clearly benefits their material interests. Has to be paid at federal level so states don’t ratfuck it.
Any hold outs, you pay travel nurses to go visit and figure out wtf is wrong with them. If they have a legit health exemption, make sure that’s noted.
If they don’t, encourage them to get the shot and offer them the money in cash in person so they can see it. Use $50 or $100 bills to drive the point home.
Anyone who still holds out should be locked out of every public space, have groceries delivered to them, internet + cable cut off, and visited weekly by a travel nurse. Do that for a while and anyone who still tantrums, you can then consider forcibly vaccinating.
separate programs: national vaccine passports and potentially a database.
I dunno my job offered 36 hours free pto for getting both your vaccines and people still didn't get it.
My point was that some people's resistance to the vaccine goes beyond monetary needs. And I don't think it's a small number. They in fact see any form of enticement to take the vaccine as further proof that they shouldn't. At this point, in fact, I think that's most unvaccinated people.
So, again, how do you make sure those people are vaccinated without pointing a gun at their heads?
Material conditions triumph over idealist values. See how long your values and beliefs in the ethereal last in the face of the concrete reality of your kids crying to you that they're hungry and you don't have the money to feed them. How strong is the bedrock of your conspiracy when the landlord is beating on your walls with a letter of eviction?
The economically secure few who's fat affords them the time to stave off their proletarianization grow fewer and fewer, and the number of masses crushed under the capitalist boot continues to grow. It is only through addressing their material needs can crises be overcome.
Fun “SocDem” style mechanism since this is a hypothetical anyway:
you could use this as a way to fine anyone above a certain income bracket (say $200k) who was still unvaccinated. Start off small, but then rapidly compound the rate you’re seizing until it ends with them at the $200k benchmark.
Publicly list the amount being seized and run huge propaganda campaigns showing it being diverted into covering the healthcare costs of everyone with covid. Frame the people who you took the funds from as being hoarders who wanted everyone being helped to suffer.
This is stupid and wonky since you at this point would have already seized their wealth, but would be hilarious to watch happen.
Edit: If I remember right; I’ve read some numbers varying the amount that everyone could equally have in the world as annual income as between $75k-$200k.
Naw, most people who aren’t vaxxed are either lazy, overwhelmed, or lightly antivaxx because they have some friends that are.
There are other methods of pressure besides putting a gun to anyone’s head.
I do not share your impression.
You think they’ll need to be forced at gunpoint, then? Just trying to understand what you’re suggesting, in favor of doing.
Your characterization of the unvaccinated. I think most people who are unvaccinated have fully bought in to conspiracy theories and I don't think money is likely to change their minds.
I think those people would have to be forced at gunpoint.
You keep repeating that gunpoint line, is that what you want to do to solve this? It’s heavy handed when we haven’t really tried that many other social pressures.
Mask / vax mandates in public spaces works pretty well, as does requiring it for employment. Cutting off treats and applying social stigma up until they vaccinate is a strong lever.
The amount of people who have actually quit their jobs over vaccination when push comes to shove is negligible.
It was just exaggeration to say I don't think anything can be done to make them get vaccinated. I don't think there's anything (this) government can do to get people to get vaccinated and reasonably end the pandemic.
We cannot cut off the treats or create any more social pressure. Or at least, the Democrats can't. You can't make the proverbial suburban hot tub salesman fire his employees for not getting vaccinated. You can't make people in East Ditchwater wear a mask. I talk to friends who have visited red areas of the country and people just don't wear masks. How does this white house get those people to wear masks or get vaccinated when they view everything it proposes as an anathema? Half of this country's entire personality is "the opposite of whatever he says". How do you combat that? You can't.
guns? too expensive. Bats on the other hand :fidel-bat:
Social pressure + taking away all treats while offering them $4k in cash to get over their shit would work for almost everyone.
Anyone who gets extremely violent / tries to go on a shooting spree, though? Then sure, put them down like the rabid animal they are. That won’t be necessary for almost anyone though.
people refusing to wear masks should be beaten. people refusing to vacc should get an opportunity to vacc but then get thrown on a pillory for schoolchildren to throw lawn darts at.
See my other comments. Bullying works. People refusing to mask should be turned away from all spaces, you’re right.
i'm in full agreement i just want to be crazy clear that i want these fucks to bleed. pissed off