oops. No wonder so many pedo at the top
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For fuck sake pedophilia isn't a mental disorder, get the hell out of here with that ableist shit. These people are evil and want to cause harm.
I'm closing responses on this, sorry. Someone else please answer.
something about equating mental illness with malice
There should be help available to pedophiles to seek out before they act on it without shame or baggage. Weird tweet from USA Today though, also Cheong, oof
The authorities shouldn't even have to be involved imo. It's just a shame that pedophilia is such a black mark in society. I mean, for right reasons, but people who are silently suffering from trauma, abuse of their own, mental illness that makes them want to act out with no help is bad. And you have shit like QAnon, which has absolutely not helped societies understanding of the subject at all. Which is rich, because the right-wing harbors so many pedophiles, but Q doesn't care about raising awareness or even helping victims for all that matter, they just use the accusations as a weapon against Trump's enemies.
There should be a line drawn at people who are sick and hurt and needs help versus those who are serial abusers, like Epstein.
I agree though I also doubt that this would happen effectively under a punitive capitalist system that already puts teens who had sex with someone within a year of another one on the sex offenders list. I would personally expect this to reflect mostly a racist and classist enforcement that would not be particularly informative for a parent trying to keep their kids away from known pedos. Might be one of those things that won't work properly without lefties in charge.
Ian Miles Cheong is a knob, and nothing in those tweets is even a little bit controversial among psychologists.
Registered today
Post history is nothing but wild accusations of pedophilia
Please leave me alone. You've already ruined the latter half of my day.
But what about muh grandstanding for internet points by expressing the extremely controversial position: child abuse bad
I'm surprised at people in this thread siding with this chud on twitter.
Nothing USA today said is unreasonable. Like, there are probably people who are pedos but don't act on it, know they don't want to act on it, and want to reach out for help in not acting on it.
This conversation of talking past the point everytime doesn't help anything, because attitude like this probably doesn't help them in asking for help suppressing it.
Child abusers are not the same as pedos. There are pedos who don't abuse children, and pedos who do. I don't even think all the people going to :epstein: are pedos, but just do it because they have the power to try it and get away with it because they are rich.
L for everyone getting mad without reading properly
Dunno why you are surprised, this sphere of the internet are total reactionaries when it comes to this stuff. They are not interested in actually preventing abuse from happening, only in making a spectacle of persecuting abusers after the fact. Shitstains like Brace Belden will make money off turning the abuse of children into a side show than go after institutions that provide therapy to people who don't want to act on their urges.
Noah Berlatasky is associated with an organization like this, and because he's a dumb lib all the dirtbag left assholes were smearing him and the organization as being akin to NAMBLA. I went on a bit of a blocking spree because child abuse is a bit of a sore subject for me, and I have zero air left for these cretins who will will make money off sensationalizing stories of child abuse while accusing people ACTUALLY trying to prevent it of being abusers.
How are they pro-child abuse? Genuinely, if they are just a crypto-NAMBLA I'll absolutely take back what I said, but from what I can tell they just provide resources meant to prevent child abuse.
Alright, I think you are right, Prostasia is shady af. I'm sorry for being so defensive, it's just a very sore subject for me and it sometimes seems like people care more about persecuting abusers than protecting victims and that clouds my judgement. I should research stuff like this before posting.
https://prostasia.org/about/
https://prostasia.org/faq/social-media-callouts-faq/
What do they do IRL or advocate for that makes them pro-child-abuse? Their about page seems alright but that's clearly not the whole story.
EDIT: Looks like they try and justify loli stuff and research into child-sex-dolls that you cannot ever get real research clearance for because if you're wrong you may cause a kid to get raped.
Although it's not helpful that not all criticism against them is legit
Yeah 4w.pub was the main source I found that was critical of them. I think they are shit, but the stuff about the founders harassing critics is pretty irrefutable.
Heebeejeebiephilia being accepted and normalized in society doesn't make it any more acceptable and it sure as hell doesn't make its fans any less r--ist.
That's because pedophilia is literally just r--- fetish taken to its logical conclusion.
Yeah the USA Today line is basically the only acceptable line on pedos. They walked the line between supporting abuse / abusive patterns and condemning all pedos to death even if they oppose that aspect of themselves, don't do shit to kids, and want help, which is the space in which this can be discussed without reactionary / abusive shit.
want to reach out for help in not acting on it
This seems to be operating on an underlying logic that isn't any different from the idea that rapists who rape adults do so because they "can't control themselves" or whatever. Like, why would anyone need special therapy or support groups or whatever to not try to rape someone just because they're attracted to them? Why should we assume that people who are attracted to children are driven to molest them any more than adults attracted to other adults are driven to abuse adults simply on the basis of that attraction? I feel like maybe they should just not molest children, shut the fuck up, and otherwise go about their business. Which makes me highly suspicious of people who try to take on the mantle of pedophile advocacy, especially self-advocacy. Makes me think that, despite what they say, they are in fact trying to normalize it.
And also, I highly, highly doubt there's enough evidence to demonstrate that pedophilia is inborn. How could you rule out cultural conditioning, for example?
Do you think cultural conditioning is both real and fundamentally separate from support and therapy? If there were a targeted social technology that made potential rapists less likely to commit it, that would be a good thing.
Yes, I guess not, and yes?
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Media and cultural values imprinted on people from a young age definitely has an influence on who they're attracted to. It's not absolute, but there's no doubt that it's a factor.
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Support and therapy, what they constitute, how they're utilized and regarded, etc., would be a part of one's cultural environment, I guess.
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The thing about rapists that I want to emphasize is that they don't rape people just because they're attracted to them. Most people who molest children don't meet the clinical diagnosis for pedophilia (etc.), for example; they molest children because they're vulnerable. Therefore, something like that would have to operate on a premise other than "if you are attracted to someone, you are naturally driven to rape them".
So again, why would pedophiles need special support groups, advocacy organizations, etc., to simply not be rapists?
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Because if you are attracted to more than one adult then you can potentially find a consensual relationship.
If you are only attracted to one particular adult who does not like you then you may need help to not become a stalker because that's the only person you want and that consensual relationship is not happening.
If you're attracted to kids only then there's obviously no consensual relationship you can have, you obviously shouldn't be thinking about doing anything and probably shouldn't be pushing the line with loli stuff. That's something where there needs to be something like conversion therapy but actually necessary and working.
Obviously don't do a rape, and if you're a pedo in denial for a while then I feel like that could end up with you either hating yourself for intrusive thought you cannot control, or doing something to a kid.
If you constantly think about being a serial killer then get help. For that scenario it's clear that repeatedly saying to yourself "hey, I'm going to not do a murder" probably isn't a great thing to advise as primary care instead of getting in touch with therapy or something to ensure nothing bad will happen.
Also none of what I said above exclusively relies on being a pedo being an inborn trait, and would probably be even more effective if it hopefully weren't because that would imply therapy cure over lifelong treatment. I just thought it was genetic markers that don't guarantee stuff, like a gene isolated that makes you 5% more likely to be a serial killer or OCD or something mental.
If you are only attracted to one particular adult who does not like you then you may need help to not become a stalker because that’s the only person you want and that consensual relationship is not happening.
Not sure I agree with this one. It seems to be rooted in the belief that being "deprived" of sex by someone drives one to commit rape.
I think you can just not be in a relationship.
Nobody is owed sex or a relationship, etc., and not having those things does not turn one into a stalker. If anything, the belief that anyone is entitled to something like that should be culturally interrogated. And people who believe that don't need "support", they need physical rectification.
Basically, this all just seems like rape culture logic.
I'm saying "may need help to not be a stalker" because a healthy person should be able to cope with rejection, but not everyone is a healthy person.
And when you have sexuality but you feel guilty about it then repressing it yourself may not really help you operate in life.
Had a roommate who was a nofap guy but failed a lot and made sure to tell me how distraught he was every time he failed (yes, it was TMI but also I felt bad for him and couldn't convince him it's normal to do that). And that was for something that is okay to do where the solution is being okay with you own sexuality; not one where you should never act on it and feel shame about it.
People snap and idk if being a non-abusing pedo is more like a sexuality you can't help, or something curable that's just because you had something fucked up happen to u as a kid, an intrusive thought that you're scared of acting on but won't, etc.
I also don't think every child-abuser is a pedo, some probably do it for power just like rapists not necessarily doing it out of sexual attraction to a person and being ignorant about consent, but wanting to hurt someone or not caring about the personhood of the person they rape.
Maybe you're right and the ones who don't try and justify it never commit to doing it and just spend their lives running away from kids as much as possible on their own. But that doesn't mean some won't fall down the rabbit hole of slowly justifying more and more bad stuff over time. Same way men aren't owed sex but incels escalate and justify that they are and should've had help to keep seeing women as people.
I notice that convicted abusers try and justify a 5 year old giving them sexual signals, and they distort kids being kids into wanting to be abused. Idk if that's sickness from birth or not that escalated from a point where they knew it was wrong; but definitely needs help.
Because if you're fantasizing about doing stuff to kids in the first place, to me that's like fantasizing about murder or rape and something you should get help for.
wait a second. this is Ian Miles Wrong, so he's probably upset that USA Today backtracked, not that they posted it
The musical South Pacific literally has a 22 Year Old main character sing a song about how he's in love with an Islander child of like 14 who is "Younger than Springtime" and then his next song is about how society turns people into racist sexist jerks from a young age and this is all considered a normal thing and not a sudden tone whiplash.
I'm sorry but The Police must go to :gulag: for both their band name and "Don't Stand So Close To Me".
We need to completely change how children are cared for and protected in general. We have a system that is essentially perfect for abuse, with few people who would know about let alone have the ability to act on abusive situations - which includes a lot more than sexual or physical abuse.
There are people in this thread who have never had to genuinely deal with a pedophile and it shows. They're not just people who just so happen to have an attraction to kids (that's not a real thing. It's an outright lie.) but rapists who pleasure in the suffering of someone they can easily control. (both physically and mentally) They can't find help (and will actively refuse help) and the only way they can be cured is with a serving of lead to the forehead.
EDIT: I don't care if you think this is extreme. You've never had to listen to someone smugly brag about their child trafficking ring and how much they got off to how much its members were suffering at their hands. Yes I'm being emotional. I have a very good reason to be. EDIT 2: I know it's important to have a big heart when you're a leftist, but please consider the victims of pedophilia and how much their lives have been destroyed by these evil fucks.
How do you know that people aren’t born with an innate attraction to kids? Do you claim to know more about biology than the people who actually study it?
Pedophilia isn't natural. I'm not going to debate you on this. Fuck you for implying I have to.
All your comments in this thread are basically you screeching “no fuck you you’re wrong and I won’t show any evidence to back up my opinion.”
Because it's the same four fucking people trying to gaslight me on what should be a very obvious point of view and demanding I debate them. Sorry, don't play that game.
Been on reddit for years. I know how to deal with trolling. I've taken on entire subreddits, even if the entire website turns on me that's not going to change my mind.
Whatever fuck this whole thread, honestly. Whoever posted it wanted to start a struggle session. We’re all comrades here. Sorry for the aggression.
Yeah, fuck this whole thread. Fash are a way bigger threat and do a lot more than just some apologia. Getting rid of them would be a death-blow to child abuse and result in countless good as a direct consequence.
EDIT: I'm going to log off for a bit. My brain is fried.
nah, they are. All nazis are pedophiles, all pedophiles are nazis, and all pedophiles r--- kids. You don't just find yourself interested in children without some seriously fucked up shit leading up to that point, and you sure as hell don't stop at just loli porn on twitter. It's not a matter of if, but when. As soon as the opportunity shows itself, there goes 3+ generations of trauma and that just assumes they stop at one.
Because it literally is apologia. You're taking their fucked-up propagandistic prospective and playing off it like it's fact. These people don't want your help, they're just taking advantage of your kindness so they can get a platform to spew their talking points. How do I know? Countless personal experience. What started as me wanting to do the right thing and make the world a better place was very quickly beat out of me.
You know how many times I heard "It's not illegal"? It's because they're the ones in power and calling the shots. Using the criminal justice system as guide isn't even remotely good dialectics.
No i'm not going to show you evidence that non-offending pedophiles don't exist because the statement otherwise is presumptuous on its base.
No because I just noticed your username and will now cease any further conversation.
