USA Today deleted this thread, in which the publication defended pedophilia. pic.twitter.com/ssfLjoDklt— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) January 11, 2022
This seems to be operating on an underlying logic that isn't any different from the idea that rapists who rape adults do so because they "can't control themselves" or whatever. Like, why would anyone need special therapy or support groups or whatever to not try to rape someone just because they're attracted to them? Why should we assume that people who are attracted to children are driven to molest them any more than adults attracted to other adults are driven to abuse adults simply on the basis of that attraction? I feel like maybe they should just not molest children, shut the fuck up, and otherwise go about their business. Which makes me highly suspicious of people who try to take on the mantle of pedophile advocacy, especially self-advocacy. Makes me think that, despite what they say, they are in fact trying to normalize it.
And also, I highly, highly doubt there's enough evidence to demonstrate that pedophilia is inborn. How could you rule out cultural conditioning, for example?
Do you think cultural conditioning is both real and fundamentally separate from support and therapy? If there were a targeted social technology that made potential rapists less likely to commit it, that would be a good thing.
Media and cultural values imprinted on people from a young age definitely has an influence on who they're attracted to. It's not absolute, but there's no doubt that it's a factor.
Support and therapy, what they constitute, how they're utilized and regarded, etc., would be a part of one's cultural environment, I guess.
The thing about rapists that I want to emphasize is that they don't rape people just because they're attracted to them. Most people who molest children don't meet the clinical diagnosis for pedophilia (etc.), for example; they molest children because they're vulnerable. Therefore, something like that would have to operate on a premise other than "if you are attracted to someone, you are naturally driven to rape them".
So again, why would pedophiles need special support groups, advocacy organizations, etc., to simply not be rapists?
Because if you are attracted to more than one adult then you can potentially find a consensual relationship.
If you are only attracted to one particular adult who does not like you then you may need help to not become a stalker because that's the only person you want and that consensual relationship is not happening.
If you're attracted to kids only then there's obviously no consensual relationship you can have, you obviously shouldn't be thinking about doing anything and probably shouldn't be pushing the line with loli stuff. That's something where there needs to be something like conversion therapy but actually necessary and working.
Obviously don't do a rape, and if you're a pedo in denial for a while then I feel like that could end up with you either hating yourself for intrusive thought you cannot control, or doing something to a kid.
If you constantly think about being a serial killer then get help. For that scenario it's clear that repeatedly saying to yourself "hey, I'm going to not do a murder" probably isn't a great thing to advise as primary care instead of getting in touch with therapy or something to ensure nothing bad will happen.
Also none of what I said above exclusively relies on being a pedo being an inborn trait, and would probably be even more effective if it hopefully weren't because that would imply therapy cure over lifelong treatment. I just thought it was genetic markers that don't guarantee stuff, like a gene isolated that makes you 5% more likely to be a serial killer or OCD or something mental.
If you are only attracted to one particular adult who does not like you then you may need help to not become a stalker because that’s the only person you want and that consensual relationship is not happening.
Not sure I agree with this one. It seems to be rooted in the belief that being "deprived" of sex by someone drives one to commit rape.
I think you can just not be in a relationship.
Nobody is owed sex or a relationship, etc., and not having those things does not turn one into a stalker. If anything, the belief that anyone is entitled to something like that should be culturally interrogated. And people who believe that don't need "support", they need physical rectification.
Basically, this all just seems like rape culture logic.
I'm saying "may need help to not be a stalker" because a healthy person should be able to cope with rejection, but not everyone is a healthy person.
And when you have sexuality but you feel guilty about it then repressing it yourself may not really help you operate in life.
Had a roommate who was a nofap guy but failed a lot and made sure to tell me how distraught he was every time he failed (yes, it was TMI but also I felt bad for him and couldn't convince him it's normal to do that). And that was for something that is okay to do where the solution is being okay with you own sexuality; not one where you should never act on it and feel shame about it.
People snap and idk if being a non-abusing pedo is more like a sexuality you can't help, or something curable that's just because you had something fucked up happen to u as a kid, an intrusive thought that you're scared of acting on but won't, etc.
I also don't think every child-abuser is a pedo, some probably do it for power just like rapists not necessarily doing it out of sexual attraction to a person and being ignorant about consent, but wanting to hurt someone or not caring about the personhood of the person they rape.
Maybe you're right and the ones who don't try and justify it never commit to doing it and just spend their lives running away from kids as much as possible on their own. But that doesn't mean some won't fall down the rabbit hole of slowly justifying more and more bad stuff over time. Same way men aren't owed sex but incels escalate and justify that they are and should've had help to keep seeing women as people.
I notice that convicted abusers try and justify a 5 year old giving them sexual signals, and they distort kids being kids into wanting to be abused. Idk if that's sickness from birth or not that escalated from a point where they knew it was wrong; but definitely needs help.
Because if you're fantasizing about doing stuff to kids in the first place, to me that's like fantasizing about murder or rape and something you should get help for.
This seems to be operating on an underlying logic that isn't any different from the idea that rapists who rape adults do so because they "can't control themselves" or whatever. Like, why would anyone need special therapy or support groups or whatever to not try to rape someone just because they're attracted to them? Why should we assume that people who are attracted to children are driven to molest them any more than adults attracted to other adults are driven to abuse adults simply on the basis of that attraction? I feel like maybe they should just not molest children, shut the fuck up, and otherwise go about their business. Which makes me highly suspicious of people who try to take on the mantle of pedophile advocacy, especially self-advocacy. Makes me think that, despite what they say, they are in fact trying to normalize it.
And also, I highly, highly doubt there's enough evidence to demonstrate that pedophilia is inborn. How could you rule out cultural conditioning, for example?
Do you think cultural conditioning is both real and fundamentally separate from support and therapy? If there were a targeted social technology that made potential rapists less likely to commit it, that would be a good thing.
deleted by creator
Yes, I guess not, and yes?
Media and cultural values imprinted on people from a young age definitely has an influence on who they're attracted to. It's not absolute, but there's no doubt that it's a factor.
Support and therapy, what they constitute, how they're utilized and regarded, etc., would be a part of one's cultural environment, I guess.
The thing about rapists that I want to emphasize is that they don't rape people just because they're attracted to them. Most people who molest children don't meet the clinical diagnosis for pedophilia (etc.), for example; they molest children because they're vulnerable. Therefore, something like that would have to operate on a premise other than "if you are attracted to someone, you are naturally driven to rape them".
So again, why would pedophiles need special support groups, advocacy organizations, etc., to simply not be rapists?
I think Trudeau said most of my thoughts.
Because if you are attracted to more than one adult then you can potentially find a consensual relationship.
If you are only attracted to one particular adult who does not like you then you may need help to not become a stalker because that's the only person you want and that consensual relationship is not happening.
If you're attracted to kids only then there's obviously no consensual relationship you can have, you obviously shouldn't be thinking about doing anything and probably shouldn't be pushing the line with loli stuff. That's something where there needs to be something like conversion therapy but actually necessary and working.
Obviously don't do a rape, and if you're a pedo in denial for a while then I feel like that could end up with you either hating yourself for intrusive thought you cannot control, or doing something to a kid.
If you constantly think about being a serial killer then get help. For that scenario it's clear that repeatedly saying to yourself "hey, I'm going to not do a murder" probably isn't a great thing to advise as primary care instead of getting in touch with therapy or something to ensure nothing bad will happen.
Also none of what I said above exclusively relies on being a pedo being an inborn trait, and would probably be even more effective if it hopefully weren't because that would imply therapy cure over lifelong treatment. I just thought it was genetic markers that don't guarantee stuff, like a gene isolated that makes you 5% more likely to be a serial killer or OCD or something mental.
Not sure I agree with this one. It seems to be rooted in the belief that being "deprived" of sex by someone drives one to commit rape.
I think you can just not be in a relationship.
Nobody is owed sex or a relationship, etc., and not having those things does not turn one into a stalker. If anything, the belief that anyone is entitled to something like that should be culturally interrogated. And people who believe that don't need "support", they need physical rectification.
Basically, this all just seems like rape culture logic.
I'm saying "may need help to not be a stalker" because a healthy person should be able to cope with rejection, but not everyone is a healthy person.
And when you have sexuality but you feel guilty about it then repressing it yourself may not really help you operate in life.
Had a roommate who was a nofap guy but failed a lot and made sure to tell me how distraught he was every time he failed (yes, it was TMI but also I felt bad for him and couldn't convince him it's normal to do that). And that was for something that is okay to do where the solution is being okay with you own sexuality; not one where you should never act on it and feel shame about it.
People snap and idk if being a non-abusing pedo is more like a sexuality you can't help, or something curable that's just because you had something fucked up happen to u as a kid, an intrusive thought that you're scared of acting on but won't, etc.
I also don't think every child-abuser is a pedo, some probably do it for power just like rapists not necessarily doing it out of sexual attraction to a person and being ignorant about consent, but wanting to hurt someone or not caring about the personhood of the person they rape.
Maybe you're right and the ones who don't try and justify it never commit to doing it and just spend their lives running away from kids as much as possible on their own. But that doesn't mean some won't fall down the rabbit hole of slowly justifying more and more bad stuff over time. Same way men aren't owed sex but incels escalate and justify that they are and should've had help to keep seeing women as people.
I notice that convicted abusers try and justify a 5 year old giving them sexual signals, and they distort kids being kids into wanting to be abused. Idk if that's sickness from birth or not that escalated from a point where they knew it was wrong; but definitely needs help.
Because if you're fantasizing about doing stuff to kids in the first place, to me that's like fantasizing about murder or rape and something you should get help for.