Permanently Deleted

    • TerminalEncounter [she/her]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Zizek in the perverts guide had a bit about this scene and I bet you can find it easily - it's where we get "eating from the trashcan of ideology" because the one guy tells the other that he's either gonna put the glasses on or he's gonna eat the trashcan. I can't remember if it's in the perverts guide or not, but that feeling of encountering bare reality without ideology is... intense, unpleasant and so on.

        • yellowparenti5 [none/use name]
          ·
          3 years ago

          i dont know what girl you're referring to.
          but i finally found the video. https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1179758001248489477

          this shit is really hard to find.
          here's more random vids https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/dh7189/helpful_list_of_hong_kong_rioter_violence/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body
          https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/dvah42/a_collection_of_hk_rioter_atrocities/

          summary of events
          reddit.com/r/Sino/wiki/faq/hong-kong-taiwan/summer-2019-protests

  • ShareThatBread [he/him, comrade/them]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Maybe link news stories that were heavily in circulation before years later being proven to be horseshit. Iraq WMDs etc

    Show the media is always complicit and fails in uncovering truth and use snark imitating them. ie “Nah bro. This time it’s different”

    • TheOtherwise [none/use name]
      ·
      3 years ago

      I've got a few days free, I may actually just do this. What other events would be good examples? I mean, it's hard to dwindle it all down...

      • RandyLahey [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        this is my favourite one - it's just so clear and unequivocal and the parallels are so stark, and it's direct from a mainstream news source at the time, showing exactly how uncritically they recirculated this nonsense (apologies, i mean "an incredible presentation of a web of evidence, not just a theory")

        • FunkyStuff [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Wow, that one is so blatant I have a feeling the average lib would sooner say "Huh, I guess they did have WMDs after all" than admit the situation with the current claims against China are the exact same thing.

        • TheOtherwise [none/use name]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Nice thanks. Is there any refutation picture by picture of the claims? I guess the biggest refutation was that they didn't find any WMD lol, but more granularly I mean mean.

          • RandyLahey [he/him]
            ·
            3 years ago

            im sure there is one, though im not aware of anything specific. with the benefit of hindsight and that there is mainstream acceptance that there were never any wmds and that the claims that they existed were deliberate lies, i think its pretty clear just looking at these fucking ridiculous pictures now how sketchy this evidence is

            i would be inclined just to remind them that a million people (or more) died based on this. this flimsy bullshit. there is a natural and very understandable inclination to "err on the side of caution" because what if youre wrong and there really is a huge atrocity that youve been complicit in denying? but "erring on the side of caution" can get a lot of people killed when its used as justification for american aggression. we were all called saddam lovers and denialists over and over by everyone in the mainstream for rejecting this shit last time, but we were right while the mainstream cheered on and facilitated a war that killed a million people based on nothing more than this shit

            picture picture

            :same-picture:

  • Dimmer06 [he/him,comrade/them]
    ·
    3 years ago

    The Ukraine issue is pretty straightforward. The country explicitly denied the right to self determination (secession) in its constitution because it knew regions with ethnic Russian majorities (like in Crimea and Sevastopol) would vote to join Russia, while regions like Donbas which have significant Russian populations would be at risk of seceding. Sevastopol and Crimea did vote to join Russia (as did half of the local military forces) and Donbas has been in a low grade civil war for almost a decade now.

    In that civil war, the most liberal estimation of Russian soldiers involved has been 12,000 (the US deployed at least 112,000 at the peak of the Iraq War for comparison and had 5,200 stationed until last year along with 20,000 marines in embassies and thousands of PMCs). Keep in mind though, that when hawks fret about Russian "aggression" towards Ukraine, they mean Russian soldiers moving within Russian borders on the edge of an active war zone in Ukraine (since they struggle to produce any actual documentation of Russian soldiers in Donbas). Is it aggression when Russia stations soldiers within its own borders? Is it aggression when the Russian military acts as a buffer against an ongoing civil war? No of course it isn't and it's chauvinism to suggest that Russians do not have that right because it upsets the liberal hawks (not to even mention the crimes of their own country).

    • LibsEatPoop [any]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Which countries allow the right to secession? I mean, it would be great if all nation-states gave that right to the territories they govern, but in practice how common is it?

      • Diogenes_Barrel [love/loves]
        ·
        3 years ago

        it's not a thing... literally only the USSR. it's an awful justification. anti-russian laws and rhetoric would be relevant

      • Dimmer06 [he/him,comrade/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Ukraine actually does, on the condition that the rest of Ukraine agrees to it as well. While I'm not aware of the right being explicit anywhere, the right to self determination (meaning secession) for peoples in Europe and Asia has been a liberal (and left) position for over a century, and it should be easy to demonstrate hypocrisy and opportunism when say, Taiwan should be allowed to secede but not Crimea. If op's "bro" is so nakedly reactionary that they don't care then op should simply use that metric to end the discussion.

  • CheGueBeara [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Pick one topic, learn everything you can about it, and school them. Don't let them change the subject. Cocksure libs need to have their arrogance dragged through the mud before they'll listen to you. I don't mean you need to be rude, but you should call their attention to why they're wrong and make them explain why they held such a strong opinion derived from overt propaganda. Make them explain what led them to believe it.

    The reality is that they heard it on some source they trust and never considered that it might be bullshit, so they did no skeptical investigation. This fact is at odds with their self-image as a sober science-following critical thinker. They must confront the contradiction - and if you're lucky they'll become more humble and therefore have less terrible takes.

    Also, keep a record of their bad takes so that you can remind them how wrong they were

    • Circra [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      On this vein, once you have actually focused on one subject, and you've somewhat proven a point on an issue, especially if it disproves what they initially thought it's worth asking something like 'how come when we talk about stuff like this what you've learned from just skimming newspaper articles is taken as concrete fact while I have to cite sources like I'm writing a fucking essay?'

      That can sometimes get them thinking about what else they might have just accepted without any question.

        • Circra [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Yeah I mean you're never gonna convince someone single handed that what they believe about their country is a tissue paper collage of lies, half truths and memory holed events but you might get them to think a bit more critically come the next 'oh my god look at what these crafty forrins are up to better bomb their cities' bullshit.

          • CheGueBeara [he/him]
            ·
            3 years ago

            At minimum you can shake their confidence that they can support their opinions when talking to you. That has a lot of great knock-on effects.

  • emizeko [they/them]
    ·
    3 years ago

    https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/

    https://twitter.com/RodericDay/status/1287411708374454273

    https://redsails.org/brainwashing/

    tennis player:

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/12/new-york-times-covers-up-its-debunked-lies-about-tennis-star-peng-shuai-by-adding-new-ones-.html

  • fitterr
    ·
    1 year ago

    deleted by creator

  • Multihedra [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Rip a giant fart in his face, more productive imo

    I’m sorry for this joke suggestion but there is a rotten grain of truth in it (maybe, this is highly speculative)

  • toledosequel [none/use name]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Very lazy but here we go

    1. You're telling me they've got 200 Dachaus up and running in a Muslim region near Afghanistan yet its business as usual in Urumqi? No population decline? No mass migration? Sure.

    2. The virologist consensus is that it is probably natural. The speculation is almost all political op-ed writers and media cranks. I thought we were supposed to trust the science? Even if it leaked from a lab, gain of function research is done all around the world, nothing sinister. The country with the most history in biological warfare is on the other side of the Pacific.

    3. The State Department couldn't find a single scientist to back it up, their own report calls it "implausible science fiction". The CIA itself says nobody is behind this. What's there to argue about?

    4. NATO.

  • comi [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    1. ask to show evidence (statistics on rapid depopulation etc)

    2. unprovable, but china cares more about health of it people self-evidently (together with taiwan, vietnam and new zealand maybe)

    3. lol

    4. ukraine can perfectly well be neutral, or freeze in winter :shrug-outta-hecks: only somehow freemarket doesn’t apply to gas transit.

    Also ask him how would he like medium range ballistic missiles in cuba, and 10 k russian soldiers there, and how would broader usa react to it, point to history in case he says it’s okay

  • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Operation Mongoose should radicalize anyone.

    The US was always a terrorist state trying to use whatever means necessary to achieve their goal, but because capitalist democracy is so stupid they keep record of all the shit they do lol.

  • bigboopballs [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Didn't the media admit that there is no "uyghur genocide" and basically just stop talking about it?

  • TheOtherwise [none/use name]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Don't know why I just thought of this, but it popped in my head. Anyone have a link to that CIA document stating how They knew Stalin wasnt the dictator they made him out to seem?

  • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Just turn Uigur thing around , he offers accusations , the most outrages accusation in fact ... he is the one providing evidence , if he just talks noise he vaguely heard , thats kind of the point , he talks noise he vaguely heard ... thats his level ... also "zenz" and the sponsors of the Reports on the Uigurs

    https://www.aspi.org.au/sponsors

    this is a non disputable (on merit) Report ordered by the Italian- Goverment that shows Uigur is a fabricated Bull , to disput it you disput 4 Italian Agencies ... https://newcoldwar.org/eurispes-academic-report-xinjiang-understanding-complexity-building-peace/

    also this list of Signatures --> https://newcoldwar.org/eurispes-academic-report-xinjiang-understanding-complexity-building-peace/

    then ukraine, you just take John Mearsheimer --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 .. hes a imperialist through and through ... so no lib dispute here ...