I used to work at an alt school for homeschooled kids. (I live in a neoliberal haven, so it wasn't usually religious nutjob parents, mostly either hippy patents, the kids were being bullied at school, the kids were serious athletes or performers and regular school schedule didn't work, etc.)
The kids were mostly undereducated and, more importantly, under socialized. I met a 14 year old kid who couldn't tell time or name the months of the year - his parents were of the "unschooling" philosophy and his mother was a teacher at a bullshit school. (I don't live in the States where seemingly anyone can be a teacher, there is a fairly significant series of qualifications she attained).
There is a weird subsection of the left who thinks public school is some sort of capitalist machine and not a victory hard-won by labour. They don't know what they're talking about. Public school is largely good - if yours needs improving fight for those improvements, but don't take your kids out unless you have to.
Yeah, in the US...that's exactly what it is. Public schooling was institutionalized here for 1 reason - to create cogs for the machine. And this is why today, you have places like TN who recently passed a law FORBIDDING any school district to go to remote learning - in the middle of a fucking pandemic - because not only do schools provide cogs for the machine, they also provide subsidized daycare so that parents aren't home caring for their kids.
Maybe it's different abroad, but here public schools are not some beacon of shining light for the labor movement
This is an ahistorical take considering public education was won by the labour movement. Of course public schools have been attacked and/or controlled by the state to push its own goals, capitalists do that with fucking everything.
TN who recently passed a law FORBIDDING any school district to go to remote learning
That's a great example of the state intentionally attacking the education system, not schools / teachers being inherently bad. Public schools are viewed by conservatives as a threat to their goals for a reason.
Chuds have been working to dismantle the educational system for at least the last 40 years. I know a bunch of teachers and they're all either progressive or full-on leftists.
Looking at a social system in decay from attacks by conservatives and deciding the solution is that we should destroy it is exactly what they want you to do.
All the schools around the region I grew up in had a tendency to move people initially hired as assistant coaches into teaching positions. Often without a degree or prior teaching experience. It was also common to see a teacher's wife or husband get an inexplicable job at the school, also without degrees. My uncle was both my chemistry and history teacher in high school. He was educated in neither, had no degree, and originally worked as a volunteer football coach (he never played football).
Also yes, public schools in capitalist countries are capitalist machines that reproduce the social cues and structures necessary for its existence. Not to say they aren't needed. Education is necessary. I imagine public schools in socialist countries are different.
The issues with public schools in the US are largely a reflection of US culture - specifically the lawsuit-happy and "I need to speak to the manager" attitudes. Parents view schools as a service and themselves as the customer, and teacher's goals have more to do with keeping parents happy, by passing their kids along regardless of learning ability, than with actually educating students. What matters is that students get the right piece of paper, and get into a good college. The idea of China's "gaokao" could never happen in the US system because the parent's whose kids can't pass the test would whine to the manager. Same deal with the debates around CRT - parents view the school as a service, so if their kid is hearing things they don't like/getting political, they whine to the manager.
am i missing something about this because this seems like a college entrance exam and the US has those. there's just multiple and it doesn't apply to the rich.
Not sure of the reasons but stuff like the SAT doesn’t have the same influence on admissions it did a decade ago. And in theory they’re kinda voluntary for everyone. I don’t remember needing anything like it for community college either. All my SAT score did was tell them I didn’t need precalc. The Chinese test sounds like a mandatory thing for anyone who wants to go to school at all.
this is a mega-complex topic and i just wanted to get the dissenting word in. US education is so byzantine and pregnant with every political and social issue that comparison to a functional system is almost absurdist comedy
because our problems are very beyond the (true) assertion that parents treat schools like a business, that's not what precludes a national examination culture. because the US has a national examination culture and reducing them has been part of reducing racially conceived obstacles. Because the US is racist and vile. So reducing the importance of standardised tests, which so many children cannot afford is a band-aid on the systemic design to churn out poor people without qualifications & rich people with pieces of paper that they've 'earned' which justify their places on top of the poor.
this kind of logic makes no fucking sense in so many countries because they just... fund education? and alot of them fund it nationally to even further reduce educational inequality. I'm sure China's not perfect and has its own issues with educational inequality and shit, but its very different from the US and for very different reasons, and one shouldn't boil the US system down to an entitled bourgeois mentality approaching education.
the rich are best situated to pass an entrance exam. its not some great equalising force that eliminates unfair advantage. China's still probably better off on that front but more due to funding public schools and not systematically denying education to huge swaths of their country on purpose
Would we want something like the gaokao here though? That kind of testing culture sounds like it comes with its own massive problems. Not sure if it’s widespread or anything but back in high school I remember there being a lot of fuss about things like the AP program and having to “teach to the test.”
I used to work at an alt school for homeschooled kids. (I live in a neoliberal haven, so it wasn't usually religious nutjob parents, mostly either hippy patents, the kids were being bullied at school, the kids were serious athletes or performers and regular school schedule didn't work, etc.)
The kids were mostly undereducated and, more importantly, under socialized. I met a 14 year old kid who couldn't tell time or name the months of the year - his parents were of the "unschooling" philosophy and his mother was a teacher at a bullshit school. (I don't live in the States where seemingly anyone can be a teacher, there is a fairly significant series of qualifications she attained).
There is a weird subsection of the left who thinks public school is some sort of capitalist machine and not a victory hard-won by labour. They don't know what they're talking about. Public school is largely good - if yours needs improving fight for those improvements, but don't take your kids out unless you have to.
Yeah, in the US...that's exactly what it is. Public schooling was institutionalized here for 1 reason - to create cogs for the machine. And this is why today, you have places like TN who recently passed a law FORBIDDING any school district to go to remote learning - in the middle of a fucking pandemic - because not only do schools provide cogs for the machine, they also provide subsidized daycare so that parents aren't home caring for their kids.
Maybe it's different abroad, but here public schools are not some beacon of shining light for the labor movement
This is an ahistorical take considering public education was won by the labour movement. Of course public schools have been attacked and/or controlled by the state to push its own goals, capitalists do that with fucking everything.
That's a great example of the state intentionally attacking the education system, not schools / teachers being inherently bad. Public schools are viewed by conservatives as a threat to their goals for a reason.
Chuds have been working to dismantle the educational system for at least the last 40 years. I know a bunch of teachers and they're all either progressive or full-on leftists.
Looking at a social system in decay from attacks by conservatives and deciding the solution is that we should destroy it is exactly what they want you to do.
Yeah unschooling is literally abuse
Yes. It's a fucked up end result of privilege, contrarianism, arrogance, and incompetence.
deleted by creator
All the schools around the region I grew up in had a tendency to move people initially hired as assistant coaches into teaching positions. Often without a degree or prior teaching experience. It was also common to see a teacher's wife or husband get an inexplicable job at the school, also without degrees. My uncle was both my chemistry and history teacher in high school. He was educated in neither, had no degree, and originally worked as a volunteer football coach (he never played football).
Also yes, public schools in capitalist countries are capitalist machines that reproduce the social cues and structures necessary for its existence. Not to say they aren't needed. Education is necessary. I imagine public schools in socialist countries are different.
The issues with public schools in the US are largely a reflection of US culture - specifically the lawsuit-happy and "I need to speak to the manager" attitudes. Parents view schools as a service and themselves as the customer, and teacher's goals have more to do with keeping parents happy, by passing their kids along regardless of learning ability, than with actually educating students. What matters is that students get the right piece of paper, and get into a good college. The idea of China's "gaokao" could never happen in the US system because the parent's whose kids can't pass the test would whine to the manager. Same deal with the debates around CRT - parents view the school as a service, so if their kid is hearing things they don't like/getting political, they whine to the manager.
am i missing something about this because this seems like a college entrance exam and the US has those. there's just multiple and it doesn't apply to the rich.
Not sure of the reasons but stuff like the SAT doesn’t have the same influence on admissions it did a decade ago. And in theory they’re kinda voluntary for everyone. I don’t remember needing anything like it for community college either. All my SAT score did was tell them I didn’t need precalc. The Chinese test sounds like a mandatory thing for anyone who wants to go to school at all.
this is a mega-complex topic and i just wanted to get the dissenting word in. US education is so byzantine and pregnant with every political and social issue that comparison to a functional system is almost absurdist comedy
because our problems are very beyond the (true) assertion that parents treat schools like a business, that's not what precludes a national examination culture. because the US has a national examination culture and reducing them has been part of reducing racially conceived obstacles. Because the US is racist and vile. So reducing the importance of standardised tests, which so many children cannot afford is a band-aid on the systemic design to churn out poor people without qualifications & rich people with pieces of paper that they've 'earned' which justify their places on top of the poor.
this kind of logic makes no fucking sense in so many countries because they just... fund education? and alot of them fund it nationally to even further reduce educational inequality. I'm sure China's not perfect and has its own issues with educational inequality and shit, but its very different from the US and for very different reasons, and one shouldn't boil the US system down to an entitled bourgeois mentality approaching education.
That's the point - the rich can't get their dumb kids into good colleges unless they can pass the entrance exam.
the rich are best situated to pass an entrance exam. its not some great equalising force that eliminates unfair advantage. China's still probably better off on that front but more due to funding public schools and not systematically denying education to huge swaths of their country on purpose
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
That's not what they were saying at all. Chill out.
deleted by creator
this is wildly aggressive for a point the post in question did not make
Would we want something like the gaokao here though? That kind of testing culture sounds like it comes with its own massive problems. Not sure if it’s widespread or anything but back in high school I remember there being a lot of fuss about things like the AP program and having to “teach to the test.”