It's been Russia's red line in the sand for 8 years.
And Westerners decided to cross it, gleefully telling themselves it wasn't a real red line at all, because 'propaganda'.
Fuck around, find out.
The US instigated this entire conflict in 2014 with a coup and now has failed to defend its far right nationalist puppets in their war of ethnic subjugation.
Do you think this will inspire loyalty to the American empire?
The Ukranians can tap out at any moment. The peace terms are on the table and they're extemely forgiving. You can't ignore the Ukranian government are the aggressors here without carrying water for fascists.
Welcome to reality.
When one side refuses peace and attacks, they are met with the consequences of that refusal to make peace. The thousands dead in Donbas, killed by the Ukranian government, are why this is happening.
For example, German civilians suffered terribly in the end of WW2. Regardless, if you criticized the USSR for the counterattack, I'd just call you a fascist and move on.
Again, the Ukranians can surrender at any moment. The only demand is they stop attacking and agree to a peace deal where they leave their minorities alone.
This is all fine and good but I'm telling you that you're going to shut down literally everyone you talk to who isn't a super ML with your rhetoric about aggressors. It's simply not going to be effective.
"Welcome to reality" also not doing favors but we're among friends here so I get what you're saying.
I honestly hate US imperialism so much I can't approach the topic with an aim to educate or convince anymore. Those years are behind me, I'm more like an angry old man yelling at the clouds now.
I fully agree with your criticism in that regard.
Most westerners have no idea Ukraine couldn't honor the peace agreement because their Nazis would rise up otherwise.
Totally off their radar.
Anything is better than literal Nazis. Critical support for Russia.
"Muh warm water port"
This isn't 1800, they have a dozen others in the modern day. This is a sad attempt at portraying them as a backwards Victorian style county. They also built an actual bridge to Crimea, so..
I'm guessing western propaganda forgot to mention that.
The real reason. 97% of Crimean people voted to join Russia. Don't they have a right to self determination?
And you're ignoring the 97% of Crimeans who voted to join Russia.
Why do you deny them the right to self determination in the face of ethnic oppression?
Terminal lib brain.
You're just a fascist sympathizer and I don't care to explain the Western propaganda out of your head.
US abandoning allies that are no longer convenient is news to nobody
the aid we're giving them is loans. Ukraine is going to be debt trapped even if they win
Anti imperialism is good, actually. Critical support for Russia in their war, 100%
The US never cared about Ukrainians. Now Ukrainians are learning the hard way how being friends with the west works.
the military aid we're sending the is in the form of large loans. If they win they'll be debt trapped
yeah it's not that they didn't think it would happen it's the consequences would happen to Ukrainians who they don't think matter
Counterpoint - literal Russian state propaganda is most likely to convey exactly what Putin wants
Synthesis? RT is going to convey exactly what Putin wants the west to hear
I have a feeling there are some more demands not in this tweet, like maybe some more territory for LPR and DPR.
Either way I'd like to hear about this in more detail, there's so much bullshit info and warmongering flying around.
It’s kinda goofy that this account showed up, shot their mouth off about this shit, got post removed for liberalism, then admitted to not knowing anything about this situation hours later and yet they got hella upvotes on this stuff lol.
TeleSur also has its interests in toeing the Russian line, but they at least cite a source here:
https://archive.is/rr8VR
RT is state propaganda but that doesn't mean everything they produce is bullshit, see Chris Hedges' show.
I don't want to pretend I know the mind of Putin, but so you think the flagrant disregard for Minsk2 and the recent posturing from Ukraine and bolstering of weaponry from NATO actually got under his skin?
Considering even close allies of Putin seemed surprised at the act, was the original plan just to announce the recognition of LPR and DPR with the forces as a bargaining tool, but then further escalation took place?
I’d that was the case why TF make those comments about Ukraine not being real? As a show of force? He’s implied revanchism stuff before in speeches but never in such a blatant way.
There was rumors he had a deteriorating mental state but I pushed them aside as western BS. But like you said the way China reacted. As well as how he risked the entirity of his economy is really weird.
Ukranians have been getting guns from the West to put the boot on the neck of ethnic minorities they deprived of democracy with a coup.
And they've been doing that for eight years now.
could be that this statement from Zelensky (2/19/22 reporting date) is either alarming to Putin or seen as enough of a justification for escalation politically
"The Minister of Foreign Affairs has been instructed to convene [consultations. If they do not take place again or their results do bring security guarantees for our country, Ukraine will have every right to believe that the Budapest Memorandum does not work, and all 1994 commitments will be called into question," the President of Ukraine said.
The Budapest Memorandum, signed on December 5, 1994, by Britain, Russia, the United States and Ukraine, provided guarantees of Ukraine's security and territorial integrity in exchange for Kyiv's surrendering of nuclear weapons.
https://uawire.org/zelensky-ukraine-may-reconsider-its-nuclear-status
just something I uncovered today - not sure if it is directly related to the invasion, but seems like as good a candidate as any others floated so far
Heartening, until you see that Zelenskyy seems prepared to sacrifice civilians to avoid giving in.
I’m pretty sure they’re fed lines to say so it’s probably accurate, at least in terms of what the government wants people to know right now
as a side note have you noticed that Americans talk about how other countries don't know what's going on as foreign press is censored then instantly dismiss out of hand all news sources that arn't western and establishment
Maybe but I can't see how this ends without the eastern provinces independent, or even part of Russia.
