Hi c/technology, I'm agitated about a specific topic and the 'normal' queers on discord are not really tolerating my rambles so I hope it's ok if I post em here. Prepare yourself for one embarrassing boomer-ass take 
I have two sets of bluetooth headphones. One is the Sennheiser BT4.50 which I got on a firesale($40) when they were clearing stock, and one is the Anker Q35. They're both terrible!
There are the practicality concerns of course, like that it's yet another battery to charge, which also means most bluetooth headphones have limited lifespans and are guaranteed e-waste. It's yet another 2.4GHz signal on top of the pile of them coming from [old 2.4G wifi devices/2.4G wireless peripherals/etc], and yet another wireless thing that refuses to sync randomly. The Android apps that these things try to use are teeeeerrible shovelware that barely works (the Soundcore app took like three re-connects to pick up my Q35). It's a lot of trouble that could be fixed by just running a cable down my shirt.
I get that there's a niche for this stuff, though. If I'm watching Youtube or a movie or whatever on a computer box hooked up to a TV, nobody wants to run a 3.5mm cable ten feet or more from that box to the couch for headphones. I use little Bluetooth 3.5mm receiver/transciever hooked up to headphones (Fostex T50RP mk3) for this purpose. And the sound quality isn't even that bad; the difference between a flac over a cable and a flac through SBC codec is pretty small. AptX is hard to tell apart at all.
That's on a $250 (CAD!) set of planar magnetic headphones though. The BT4.50s and the Q35s? They are dogshit. I thought that the ability to run a cable to these things might remove the problem of their limited lifespan, but in the case of the Q35s they sound atrocious wired without the EQ built into their goofy app. The Sennheiser just sounds like trash period. Curiously both of them have pretty much no high end, and probably worse sound stage than fully closed-back headphones like the Audio Technica M40x I have.
It feels weird that the bottleneck in sound quality for wireless headphones is not the BT codec, but the actual drivers. That's the short and long of it though; I feed them stuff like the Killing Joke selftitled or Big Generator by Yes, basically any of my really high dynamic range CDs as well as some 24/48 vinyl rips (Face Dances by The Who, Dreamboat Annie by Heart) and then some more modern crushed stuff for fun, bits of Black Dresses or some math rock and whatnot. None of it sounds any good on the BT4.50 or the Q35 without EQ, and even with the Q35's EQ it can't really hold a candle to even a middling set of cans like the M40x. I guess this makes sense, because you're paying for the battery and the bluetooth stuff and the amplification and the mics/noise cancelling? But damn, your wireless options are the same price as wired for way worse sound, or maybe theoretically more costly for the same quality? Pls hmu if you know of any bluetooth headphones that would measure up to classic cans like the Sennheiser HD600, Fostex T50 etc. tyvm
For what it's worth, that noise cancelling is probably worth the money on its own - the ability to just block out the sound of the neighbour's kids shrieking or the annoying bass-pulse of an air conditioner is really rad. Both of these bluetooth headsets do a pretty good job of blocking out background sounds, and that's rad for autism gang & anyone else who has sensory processing troubles. But that is pretty much their only niche imo! If I wanna watch junk on Youtube and there's a jackhammer going across the hall, I grab a wireless set and hope the bluetooth will pair automatically.
But if I actually wanna listen to anything in non-vomit audio quality wirelessly, I'm strapping one of those little bluetooth re/trans-ceiver things to my real headphones and pairing that(which has a better hit rate for pairing than the Q35, lol lmao) to my PC or an android box.
To be real though, in 99% of the cases I use headphones, a cable is easier & more convenient & results in the best audio quality. Using headphones on a PC at a desk? Wired. Hooking headphones up to the phone for a Youtube clip? Wired. Fiio M7 for music? Wired. If distance isn't a factor, bluetooth is a huge hassle for a worse experience overall.
I just hate with a passion that this at-best niche product category that performs worse than the established counterpart (remember how badly stuff like the Bluebuds X Braggi Dash were for disconnects?) seems to be replacing wired options in the popular conscious?? Phones and laptops without 3.5mm jacks should be considered war crimes, trust me. No I do not care if it's about IP67 water protection, do better pls. No excuse. I despise this trend.
Granted, I'm a weird freak and willing to lay down a lot of convenience in pursuit of "shit sounds good". More than a lot of people, like I'm pretty sure the average person would look at you funny for suggesting that they carry a second device around for music. I didn't like MP3(or lossy codecs lol) as a premise, because don't decide what I can and can't hear(even if I can't hear a lot of difference lol), but I at least understand why MP3 was cool and rad. For one thing it predates flac, but also an album in MP3 is like less than a third the size of the flac equivalent, and big files would fill up your shitty 80GB IDE drive(or worse yet, your ipod) real fast. The tradeoff in sound quality which most people probably can't even hear for very small file sizes makes a ton of sense, even now with codecs like opus. I only fill big SD cards with flacs 'cause I'm a stubborn fucker.
But bluetooth audio in general seems like a niche technology with one or two cool uses(TV with headphones, and those embarrassing bluetooth earpieces executives used to have in the 2000s) that mainstream users are adopting with all its numerous faults, exclusively for the privilege of not having to take off the headphones before you get up from a desk. For the privilege of not having a cable running through your sweater? All this garbage just for that?
It's possible my myopic ass is missing some critical use case that normals have, and I know most nornals do not care at all for sound quality. I also know that people will have had both better and worse experiences as far as bluetooth goes, but maaan this shit sucks and it makes me buttmad that they wanna get rid of cables for pretty much no reason, grrrrr 
gonna go stare at the bits of vintage audio gear I have, rip
Before wireless earbuds you were basically kicked off the construction site if someone caught you more than once with wired headphones. Now since they can't really get caught on anything most sites can't police it at all without major arguments.
This means fewer speakers playing the worst music you've ever heard getting drowned out by a big chop saw every 15 seconds
Blasting Toby Keith from my Makita boom box but don’t you dare put in headphones
I hate Bluetooth in general because it seems like a security nightmare.
Also wireless headphones are way too overpriced compared to wired
I didn't even think about the security end, although fwiw I always have BT turned off on everything unless I am actively using a keyboard or something.
I do not give one single solitary fuck about audio quality it all sounds the same to me. Getting a headphone cable caught on something is infuriating beyond measure, though.
You wear clothes? Surely the cable can easily be run through a jumper, or clipped to a shirt...
How can all this be worth it for that???
Theyve both got their time and place imo.
In the house im all about my wired headphones, but for example, running is a godsend with wireless earbuds.Then the cable gets caught on the clothes. What do you mean, "all this"? All headphones sound the same to me. Hell, I usually listen with only one bud in, in mono. The biggest key feature I looked for when shopping for my current set of earbuds was the left one being able to work by itself. I haven't had any issues with the sync failing or with the app. The only actual advantage that wired headphones have in my book is cost, and that disappears too when we're talking about the fancy expensive wired headphones you're using.
If I'm at home and not working, it's no contest - I plug in some real headphones, open back over-ears preferably.
That said, I've been really liking these wireless Samsung things recently. They are in-ears, so maybe a bit off-topic. These days it seems all I do is eat hot chip, work with loud equipment, and ride the train - so, lots of background noise and over-ears are too cumbersome.
- I'm getting lucky with this bluetooth stuff. They pair immediately when i open the little case, 100% of the time.
- These samsung ones just sit in my outer ear and may be the most comfortable headphones I've ever tried. Definitely the most comfortable in-ears. They don't even fall out when I'm running, and the normal silicone-tipped ones always did.
- They don't sound good, and this is no surprise because the driver is so small and the form factor is so weird. But they sound okay, and on the train no headphones are sounding that much better than these.
- Cable doesn't get in the way or get caught on things when I'm working, and also maybe it's some sensory thing but I hate how the cable feels running under my shirt. For me this is huge.
- The battery is not great. Needs charging every day.
At any rate, wired definitely shouldn't be phased out. My new phone has no 3.5mm jack
Samsung Beans!!!! What an odd shape, lol.
I think BT headphones are actually solid for niches like this - a funny thing is that audio nerds will get caught up carrying giant player/dac/amp combos out and about with huge headphones... but whether or not you can even hear any of that on a train or in a crowd or anywhere there's lots of ambient noise, that sort of varies. I tend to use wired IEMs(Tinn T2) anyway because again stubborn, but active noise cancelling could be desired in those cases. I do also find it weird how "traditionally good headphones/earbuds" and "Active Noise Cancelling" seem to exist on opposite sides of a gulf
What I don't get is why BT headphones seem to be trying to crowd out typical wired headphones as the new standard? My wife says it's a sort of planned obsolescence thing, wherein they can force you to buy new ones every few years due to battery degradation. I wish they could coexist more happily :/
My wife says it's a sort of planned obsolescence thing, wherein they can force you to buy new ones every few years due to battery degradation.
My $100 wired buds always went bad in a year. My BT have been much more reliable and long lasting
My two most recent ones were from Etymotic and Noble. Admittedly they got a lot more use than my Samsung Bluetooth buds
I'm no audiophile, but the unreliability and fussiness of wireless in general has kept me loyal to the wires. I get secondhand embarrassment watching people try to tame their blue tooth stuff over and over. I also opt for electric over electronic in everything I can, in the name of predictability and repairability.
noooo the motherboard in my $2000 sewing machine burnt out, replacements are out out of stock, and this year's model uses a different board!
haha 70 year old sewing machine I got for $5 at a yard sale go brrrrrr
I tend to be unbearably smug to myself while watching people try to tame their bluetooth stuff, tryna sync to a speaker
I feel you about this, a lot of appliances and stuff needlessly complicated by computerisation.
It's possible my myopic ass is missing some critical use case that normals have
physical activity. I saw a couple people bouldering with BT earbuds in yesterday. I deadlift listening to music. Some things, wires are a nonstarter.
For portable use, I personally have some Chinese drivers that can be plugged into either a BT adapter or to regular wires. Better sound quality on the bus, better mobility at the gym or working on my car. When the battery dies I can replace just the BT adapter; when the earbuds die I can replace (and upgrade) just the earbuds. 1 replacement of each so far with no issues. I have wired cans for desktop use of course, nothing can beat actual headphones.
Maybe I have weirdly shaped ears, but physical activity is the first thing I completely ruled out ever using BT for. Ear buds just pop out within three steps of me starting jogging, and BT earphones will randomly lose connection on me while I'm trying to do a set. Cheapo plug in headphones were and remain the best option for personal sound at the gym or on the trail, IMO - I've never really had any trouble with a short wire getting in the way.
I use those ones that have a supporting thing that wraps around your ear. My BT headset never loses connection unless it's trying to go through a wall or I'm more than a few yards away, though when I turn it on I have to manually reconnect once before it'll work properly. I'm sure Apple has figured it out but mine was $20. I just can't handle a wire flopping around, even with clips. I struggle not to get it caught on stuff, stretch out and yank it, or squish the phone in my pocket (deadlifts). Maybe for jogging or something where your torso isn't flexing. I'd have the "yanking" problem working on my car as well, sliding underneath without a creeper.
My body gets in the way of the signal when exercising. I wouldn't believe it possible if it didn't happen every time I crouched.
I was always against wireless headphones and never listened to music in the gym. Then I went to a gym with shitty music that I needed to block, and my opinion changed. I don't notice much of a difference in sound quality, and I bought decent (but still cheap) wired buds
I hate everything wireless. Non-replaceable batteries, interference and functional trade-offs to save space for said batteries and bluetooth transmitters. For what? Because cables get tangled sometimes? It doesn't look cool? Don't care, cable everything.
My problem with Bluetooth is the complete opposite of yours. I just want something cheap and somewhat reliable that works, and I don't mind low audio quality.
Lots of cheap Bluetooth peripherals get a lot of interference, and you either have to get a whole headset and look like a robbable tourist, or those little thingies and look like a robbable tourist with an added bonus that if one falls off of your ears they're gone forever.
And don't even get me started on having to charge them.
On the other hand, cables are long enough they never annoy me, and even cheap earbuds last forever. It all feels like just a ploy by Big Lithium.
I did not read your long post. Sorry, I’m at work and don’t have time.
Speaking as someone who repairs and builds amplifiers, speakers and all kinds of other stuff and has at least 20 pairs of wired headphones and five Bluetooth pairs:
Have you listened to the apple headphones from an apple device? I used to be able to rattle off the specific codec or pairing protocol and why it tends to sound good, but speaking as the proud owner of an anechoic chamber, they sound pretty good.
That said, my judgement isn’t to be trusted because of years of hearing damage from going to shows. I use test equipment to tell me when it’s right.
A possible solution to your headphones sounding bad is the old loudness contour. People seem to like it a lot.
Edit: I took the time to read through your long post. You should go with apple device and wireless headphones and accept that there is a slight quality difference and when streaming sometimes it’ll drop the bitrate like watching youtube when someone starts torrenting a million Linux isos.
Remember how everyone who had a bmw also bought a Bose system and really enjoyed it because even if it didn’t produce “accurate” sound the combination of electronic and acoustic filters sounded good? Well apple is the new bose. It sounds good and the experience is good and the experience is at least half of listening to music.
Ultimately how much effort are you willing to put in to listen to things in a way that you yourself admitted you might not even be able to hear the difference in quality of? When does it start detracting from the experience?
One of my favorite memories of listening to music is playing records with friends and family on a changer built into an old console. It had an old rock-ola ceramic cartridge, a push pull tube amp, aggressive loudness contour and the records were all pretty dirty. It was wonderful. The sound wasn’t accurate at all and there was audible distortion, but we had a great time and it sounded musical.
It’s okay to not want your yes opus files to sound like they’re being played through an old juke box, but surely there’s a middle ground you’d accept.
I’d suggest you consider what experience you’d like to have first before thinking about the quality of the sound. Think about the knuckleheads with 20k in gear stacked up on a little wire shelf that you always see on audio forums. Do you really wanna live like that? No. You don’t. No one does. That kind of thing is a compromise people who tell themselves they’re on a journey make.
Don’t go on a journey, listen to music instead.
It's cute if Apple has their own codec that makes Airpods or whatever sound good, but imagine buying Apple products. My techbrain is bad enough soz
also the Airpods Max are CAD$549, I could kit myself out wired for that moneyI've done my level best to protect my ears from wear, they aren't perfect but are still decent. I've used loudness curves on my 80s receivers now and then, (didn't see the options in the Anker app) but I don't find much appeal to it, plus there's enough colouring the sound in whatever amp stage I'm using usually.
Oh shit, I just edited because I read through everything.
Tldr: apple is the new bose and here’s why that’s a good thing.
I’m using the old air pods and they sound fine. Iirc there’s a “battery replacement” program where you can take em to an apple store and they’ll replace em with a new pair for a fraction of the new price. Who knows if they actually recycle the old ones though…
My partner uses the pro ones with noise canceling and it’s fucking uncanny. Like, I used to play music with someone who used whatever the current hot shit noise cancelling over the ear headphones were to listen to rough cuts and these made them look like skymall trash.
I also refuse to ever buy Bluetooth headphones again, especially a headset. Worse than the sound quality is the mic compression- Bluetooth can't handle 2 full sound channels so your voice will sound like shit. I got these years ago and they've been amazing:
https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-US/p/rs-195/
- replaceable rechargeable AAA. If you forget to charge, just pop a AAA in there
- ear pads cost 10-15 dollars to replace every ~3 years
- RF, not Bluetooth. Noticeably better range
- no fucking BOOWOOP... BEDOOP... noises when momentarily walking out of range. Just cuts in and out naturally and instantly, so you miss a quarter second instead of 2 seconds. -not necessary to use hearing modes, you just hold the main button for a couple seconds and it turns off all that processing and increases the volume
I combine that with either:
- a unidirectional boom mic with gain control, or
- an antlion modmic, which is a fully separate and uncompressed wireless channel for your voice. You can 3m stick or super glue the little magnet to your sennheisers and you have a removable mic
The only thing I dislike about Sennheiser is their earcup/head-pad material which is the shitty kind that eventually sheds and leaves black specs everywhere.
I bought replacement ear pads off eBay labelled as "protein leather" which is also synthetic leather but a lot thicker and nicer synthetic leather than the normal Sennheiser earpad.
Yes these definitely have that fucking material, although it's a very common material for everything outside of high-end headphones, and these have the huge advantage of replaceable cups. Many headphones just have it all glued together in there and have to be thrown away at that point. When mine start to degrade in a couple years again, I'll definitely look for protein leather
not to mention how disposable they are.
battery dies in a couple of years = dead unrepairable earbuds
Most good wireless earbuds like airpods have GPS tracking and can play a ringing noise to tell you where they are, so harder to lose than wired stuff
Also idk, my mom's had a pair for 5 years and the battery's still going strong
I land on the other side of this, I hate wires. I think we can all agree that wires are annoying, and the only reason to use them is because of the quality difference. Edit: I'll correct myself. I agree with the point made about e-waste, and the issue that the drivers are worse to make room for the battery and Bluetooth module.
Wired over-ear headphones are fine for me, because their use case is when I'm stationary and sitting.
Wired earbuds piss me off. Turn the wrong way and they rip out of your ears. You can hear sounds if the wire bumps or brushes anything. The hanging wire adds a slight weight/pull on the ear canal which contributes significantly to discomfort wearing for long time use.
It probably comes down to the use cases which actually happen in my life. I usually need to listen to things when I'm on a walk (podcast/audiobook/YouTube video) which isn't going to have top tier source audio anyway. Or else it's on public transit to block the outside noise. But on a bus, it's cumbersome to have a wire dangling around, in comparison with the convenience of an earbud you can barely feel.
I have good wired over-ear headphones (Shure SRH1540) that I run through a DAC/Amp when I'm home. But I use my Bluetooth earbuds (Soundcore Liberty 4) WAY more often. Sometimes I even forget about the Shures.
Wired earbuds sound like they'd be terrible. But I already think earbuds in general are terrible lol
I have a cheap set of wireless earbuds. Sound quality is OK I guess. At home I only listen through speakers. At the gym, I can't describe how much more convenient Bluetooth earbuds are. I don't care about sound quality hit, not getting a wire interfering with my lifts is just way better. I used to just not listen to music at the gym because everything was wired.
E-waste though... yeah.
This is correct.
I used to listen to music and podcasts all the time. I wouldn't go out the house without headphones. Or around the house, for that matter. Then manufacturers took the 3.5mm jack out of phones and I had to begrudgingly get Bluetooth headphones.
Pile of shite. Who tf wants yet another thing to charge? And having to leave Bluetooth on, making my phone vulnerable and using excess battery.
Yes, I have a usb-c adapter but I can't afford to fuck the charging port, so that's not a real option.
This makes me realise, that for about 2, maybe 3 years I've listened to very little music, podcasts, anything. That's a very sad thought. The only silver lining is that the capitalist class has lost far, far more in income from not selling me music than they have gained in selling me shit hardware. Sorry for the artists, though.
In fact, that's also about the same time I stopped going on random walks so much: I literally can't be bothered fucking around with these shitty Bluetooth things, if I can ever find them, so I just don't go out unless I have to. Before, I'd go out as an excuse to listen to something. Fuck.
These manufacturers have literally taken the joy out of music. I'm not even that bothered about the quality. A decent pair from a supermarket would be fine for me. In the days of MP3 players and iPod Shuffles, I'd compress every song into a tiny, tiny file to fit more tracks on. I'm going to try to find a wired solution and see if my mood and fitness improve lol.
Anyway, you're 100% right in the post and you're other comments. Never really had a problem with getting the cable caught. It happens, but it's insignificant in comparison to the flaws of wireless headphones. Bluetooth headphones are a solution to a problem that only exists because some fuck exec decided to create a problem to sell to you and keep selling to you a solution. They were inspired by DiCaprio's character in that film with the moving pictures but next to no sound because Bluetooth headphones are as reliable as chocolate saucepans.
I'm sure you could find a vintage ipod or something. I know a friend who still uses an old ipod classic.
I'm very much team wires myself too; I won't but a phone without a headphone jack, even if it increasingly limits my options.
What you’re saying about usbc is true and sucks. It’s a delicate little port and you gotta have a dongle that’ll break sacrificially instead of fucking the port but preserving itself.
The dongle is a lot more doable with lightning ports but those are going away too now.
My feelings solidifed back in high school when each set of wireless earphones I bought completely died a year before my equivalent wired ones started even having issues, tried it twice and then went back to taping the cable on my wired ones so it stuck in the one position that didnt cut in and out randomly.
If wireless starts becoming wonky theres just jack shit you can do.
Lmao yes. I remember crappy wired earbuds (mine were like Walmart branded, Skullcandy thingies) that would get bent up and need to be held a certain way to not cut out. Replaceable cables with MMCX connectors were a revelation for me, have not had an issue since
