The ML parties have some split on it. A majority are "both sides bad" but there's a distinct faction in each ML party that argues Russia is not currently imperialist, that they are a capitalist and could become imperialist in future but do not in fact currently meet Lenin's definition for it. Not all capitalist countries are imperialist and not all capitalist war is imperialism.
I'm in the both sides bad faction but they have points worth hearing. It doesn't really change much for organising though so it doesn't threaten much division. That faction is also very aware that it will become imperialist down the line one way or another also and that the things causing it to not meet the definition are simply a matter of the current global power balance, when that balance changes to multi-polar they still say we'll definitely see a fully imperialist Russia emerge.
I'm leaning towards "multipolarity is a good thing" given today's circumstances. Russia will undoubtedly try to arise as an emergent imperialist power once they are able to but they will still need to be reliant on an "anti-NATO" power Bloc with Belarus, China, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. And once the West further unravels, it will still take a while before the power vacuum is filled, which gives time (assuming they will be as axe-happy and competently lethal towards international socialist movements as NATO is, which is in the cards).
That said, that's a far cry from saying "the invasion is a good thing, actually".
Yes that seems to be where these factions are at. I don't wholly agree with them but the disagreements that exist don't really change anything for how any of us are organising and they don't change any of the analysis for the future. This makes fighting over it rather pointless.
True. The struggle sessions among the (actual) Left over this point feel like a waste of energy, since everyone is at least on the same page regarding NATO's role.
The ML parties have some split on it. A majority are "both sides bad" but there's a distinct faction in each ML party that argues Russia is not currently imperialist, that they are a capitalist and could become imperialist in future but do not in fact currently meet Lenin's definition for it. Not all capitalist countries are imperialist and not all capitalist war is imperialism.
I'm in the both sides bad faction but they have points worth hearing. It doesn't really change much for organising though so it doesn't threaten much division. That faction is also very aware that it will become imperialist down the line one way or another also and that the things causing it to not meet the definition are simply a matter of the current global power balance, when that balance changes to multi-polar they still say we'll definitely see a fully imperialist Russia emerge.
i think debating if russia is imperialist or not doesn’t really matter lol
I agree
It sort of does when people trying to use it as justification for NATO getting involved, but yeah.
In that specific situation it definitely can matter, but luckily I've never seen anything close to that here
yeah but NATO is verifiably an imperial structure so its not like if russia is or isn't should change much
I'm leaning towards "multipolarity is a good thing" given today's circumstances. Russia will undoubtedly try to arise as an emergent imperialist power once they are able to but they will still need to be reliant on an "anti-NATO" power Bloc with Belarus, China, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. And once the West further unravels, it will still take a while before the power vacuum is filled, which gives time (assuming they will be as axe-happy and competently lethal towards international socialist movements as NATO is, which is in the cards).
That said, that's a far cry from saying "the invasion is a good thing, actually".
Yes that seems to be where these factions are at. I don't wholly agree with them but the disagreements that exist don't really change anything for how any of us are organising and they don't change any of the analysis for the future. This makes fighting over it rather pointless.
True. The struggle sessions among the (actual) Left over this point feel like a waste of energy, since everyone is at least on the same page regarding NATO's role.
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