When you base analysis on materialism and class strata rather than, say, the reactionary positions and ideologies of bougie leadership, your position will not be nullified merely by the passage of time. Modern day capitalism is no different now than it was then, save for some token gestures and somewhat less permitted exploitation (I know you were probably joking, I just felt compelled to type this out in part to force my abstract thought into words).
Those of us who said Russia and Assad weren’t imperialists in Syria ended up being proven right by the passage of time. We will be proven right again, against all the western chauvinists who “both sides” the situation (as they always do)
left guy top panel = 99% of social media right now
right guy top panel = a strawman of all NATO skepticism
not really a strawman bc ive seen quite a few (weird) leftists unironiclly have this position lol
The ML parties have some split on it. A majority are "both sides bad" but there's a distinct faction in each ML party that argues Russia is not currently imperialist, that they are a capitalist and could become imperialist in future but do not in fact currently meet Lenin's definition for it. Not all capitalist countries are imperialist and not all capitalist war is imperialism.
I'm in the both sides bad faction but they have points worth hearing. It doesn't really change much for organising though so it doesn't threaten much division. That faction is also very aware that it will become imperialist down the line one way or another also and that the things causing it to not meet the definition are simply a matter of the current global power balance, when that balance changes to multi-polar they still say we'll definitely see a fully imperialist Russia emerge.
i think debating if russia is imperialist or not doesn’t really matter lol
It sort of does when people trying to use it as justification for NATO getting involved, but yeah.
In that specific situation it definitely can matter, but luckily I've never seen anything close to that here
yeah but NATO is verifiably an imperial structure so its not like if russia is or isn't should change much
I'm leaning towards "multipolarity is a good thing" given today's circumstances. Russia will undoubtedly try to arise as an emergent imperialist power once they are able to but they will still need to be reliant on an "anti-NATO" power Bloc with Belarus, China, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. And once the West further unravels, it will still take a while before the power vacuum is filled, which gives time (assuming they will be as axe-happy and competently lethal towards international socialist movements as NATO is, which is in the cards).
That said, that's a far cry from saying "the invasion is a good thing, actually".
Yes that seems to be where these factions are at. I don't wholly agree with them but the disagreements that exist don't really change anything for how any of us are organising and they don't change any of the analysis for the future. This makes fighting over it rather pointless.
True. The struggle sessions among the (actual) Left over this point feel like a waste of energy, since everyone is at least on the same page regarding NATO's role.
you mean like the other day when you accused me of having that position, and then i explained that wasn't my position, and then you just doubled down and didn't address anything i had to say and continued to characterize me as simping for Russia/Putin? And then backed out of the conversation instead of apologizing or retracting your slander? :stalin-gun-1::stalin-gun-2:
PS: I said a strawman of all NATO skepticism and not a strawman of a handful of weirdos. Because that's what I'm seeing from the liberals over and over again. Any pushback on NATO = simping for putin. Any explanation that you're not simping for putin = lies.
Then these memes that imply there's only two sides, ukraine simps and russia simps, without any nuanced foreign policy understanding of how NATO was created BEFORE the warsaw pact with the specific goal of encircling and liberalizing the USSR, and once that goal was achieved they kept kicking the dead horse. The point is NATO caused this conflict, not that the right wing ex-KGB oligarch putin is a good boy. Read Washington Bullets. Read Blackshirts and Reds. Read Killing Hope. The war is pointless as the bottom panel implies, but it's not the result of Ukraine and Russia being equally bad, it's wholly engineered by US/NATO over several decades to get two former USSR nations killing each other. Divide and Conquer. Loot and Plunder. Enable reactionaries. That has been the NATO formula since 1949.
lol please log off
also not reading past the “i remember an interaction from days ago” seek help
I agree with everything he said so atleast make an effort to counter
Lol, more people should be like me and not have object permanence. Who cares about history or previous interactions? I want to experience life as a series of discreet events totally disconnected from one another
if you are remembering random interactions with someone on a website about a funny podcast maybe reorient your priorities
"remembering a conversation about geopolitics from 3 days ago makes you unhinged" - you
i legit have put no effort or thought into any replies, so yes I’ve been totally owned bc they totally owned someone who doesn’t care
e: debate shit is cringe and annoying go back to reddit where you clearly belong
damn i noticed your pattern of behavior in mischaracterizing people on this specific issue, which centers around highly topical current events, guess that means i "need help"
i try not to remember or engage with ppl who have so obviously lost the plot
Soviet camaraderie has been replaced by reactionary nationalism :ussr-cry:
You know people use the description on the right to attack anything not pro NATO and anyone trying to add historical and background context on the blame us and the West has on the conflict
Don't propagate it as not only being a real position but also being in even remotely the same stratosphere of spread as the other position and uncritical NATO stanning and Russian demonization.
From what I can gather it seems to be more like:
Ukrainian soldier: Die you muscovite worm, all glory to the heroes of Ukraine!!
Russian soldier: Artillery fire go brrr. Hope I don’t die that would suck.
More like:
Russian and Ukrainian GIs: I just wanna go home :sadness-abysmal:
Ukrainian Nazi Units: SLAUGHTER THE ASIATIC HORDE!!!
Probably some weirdo Russian spec ops guys: Finally, my own Great Patriotic War!
Ethnic Russian Separatists: This could be very good or very bad for me depending on a lot of factors :scared:
Those are mostly UKR propaganda, Russia has taken far more prisoners than vice versa.
Every video I see of Russian troops they seem professionally calm or pumped
Just watched interviews with Donetsk soldiers and all of them said "Ukraine was taken over by Nazis, we are killing Nazis who torture and crucify ethnic Russians, normal Ukrainians aren't evil but Nazis run everything"
I watched several interviews and that sums them all up pretty well.
Pelosi gleefully rubbing her hands together during the sotu went right over the heads of all the shitlibs. Go get that bag #girlboss
So if there’s a NATO backed color revolution in Russia right now you would support that?
Libs don’t understand critical support or how every invasion and army ever isn’t imperialist. Russia is countering imperialism here just as they did in Syria
Stop talking to yourself shithead, sorry you can’t cope with me having the same opinion as all AES while you go off on your western ultra lib shit
the only way out of this war is decisive Russian victory and Ukrainian surrender. Both sides libshit will only result in an endless quagmire of death.
No you think there should be a color revolution in Russia. You don’t want their victory you want their collapse like every western Lib does
So you would support the overthrow of the Putin regime in the middle of this operation? You do understand that will be 100% coopted by Western Capital right?
Revolutionary Defeatism means fighting against the empires you are within to defeat them from within, such as the Bolsheviks did in WW1. You do Revolutionary Defeatism within imperialist nations during imperialist wars.
So by saying you support revolutionary defeatism in Russia right now, what that effectively means is that you believe Russia’s government is doing an imperialist war and should be overthrown. It should not be. Revolutionary Defeatism is not the correct tactic for Russian anti-imperialists right now
Destroying UK airforce bases being built. Destroying massive arms buildup of NATO funded weaponry. Destroying Azov training facilities. Stopping the NATO-backed assault on the people of Donbas and Crimea. Ousting the NATO-backed Maidan putsche government.
All of these fight against the expansion of the hegemonic empire
You implied this is a “both sides” situation and not a imperialist vs an anti-imperialist force
