Basically on a global scale, the only way to cope is to assume China is actually doing third world Maoism born from dengism, whereby China having the means of production in their country, after the west gave it to them under Deng, will allow them to indirectly redistribute wealth from the west to China. And China will share this wealth through the belt and road initiative.
And that this indirect wealth distribution from the core to the global south will allow China and the global south to build their own wealth to the point where the west no longer has leverage, or conditions deteriorate in the west to that point, or both. Then leftist thought might be viable as a mainstream position in the west, as the workers will no longer enjoy the same advantage over the rest of the world as they did before.
That's not to say working conditions aren't fucked in the west, they certainly are, but treats seem to be enough to keep the lid on the pot for now.
Yeah, it's pretty much a form of coping in a way. I think I edited my initial reply to your post with a much longer explanation of this. But it's the only way I can see communism going further than a few AES states, a minimisation or solving of the contradiction in terms of global wealth distribution.
i honestly think said collapse may be faster than most historical ones thanks to mass dementia from covid combined with mass starvation from climate famines and flooding, we will absolutely see it in our lifetimes but it will be horrifying.
if by "socialist rebuid" you mean complete control over the entire planet, yeah, but if by "socialist rebuild" you mean socialist societies existing in the United States it could be as soon as 20 years if balkanizing is the future in store for us
it's not optimistic to say people might build communes of 20 farmers in a place after a collapsed state. it would be optimistic to say they would live a happy life free of conflict with the forces of capital though
spoiler for disco elysium but i found this really profound :lt-dbyf-dubois:
Rhetoric: The question you mean to ask is both very complicated and incredibly simple...
Endurance: Take a deep breath. Best to go one piece at a time.
You: If communism keeps failing every time we try it...
Steban: (he waits patiently for you to finish)
You: ...And the rest of the world keep killing us for our beliefs...
Steban: Yes?
Volition: Say it.
You: ...What's the point?
Steban: (he considers your words for a minute)
Composure: You're witnessing his ironic armour melt before you. This is his true self you're seeing now.
Empathy: He's thinking about someone...
You: Wait, who is he thinking about?
Empathy: Hard to say. Someone dear to him.
Visual Calculus: Track his gaze. He's looking out past the broken wall, toward the opposite side of the Bay...
You: Toward the skyscrapers of La Delta.
Visual Calculus: They rise like electric obelisks in the night.
Steban: The theorists Puncher and Wattmann — not infra-materialists, but theorists nonetheless — say that communism is a secular version of Perikarnassian theology, that it replaces faith in the divine with faith in humanity's future... I have to say, I've never entirely understood what they mean, but I think maybe the answer is in there, somewhere.
You: Wait, you're saying communism is some kind of religion?
Steban: Only in this very specific sense. Communism doesn't dangle any promises of eternal bliss or reward. The only promise it offers is that the future can be better than the past, if we're willing to work and fight and die for it.
You: But what if humanity keeps letting us down?
Steban: Nobody said fulfilling the proletariat's historic role would be easy. (he smiles a tight smile) It demands great faith with no promise of tangible reward. But that doesn't mean we can simply give up.
You: Even when they ignore us?
Steban: Even then.
Ulixes: Mazov says it's the arrogance of capital that will be its ultimate undoing. It does not believe it can fail, which is why it must fail.
Volition: So young. So unbearably young...
Half Light: Why do you see the two of them with their backs against a bullet-pocked wall, all of a sudden?
Inland Empire: Their faces, blurred yet frozen as though in ambrotype. You were never that young, were you?
Steban: I guess you could say we believe it because it's impossible. (he looks at the scattered matchboxes on the ground) It's our way of saying we refuse to accept that the world has to remain... like this...
Yeah, I've pretty much resigned myself to communism being an utter failure. I've gotten to the point that I just genuinely despise my fellow man and don't want a better world for them. I fantasize about the entire city I live in being raised in nuclear hellfire because I'm just so fed up with these listless, foolish, maladjusted, sad people. I don't buy that this is purely material conditions anymore, pretty sure even under communism most of these people would suck shit and I honestly don't want a better world for them.
Those people in turn are but products of their time. They are sad and angry and maladjusted because they grew up in a human fleshgrinder called Capitalism.
Again I don’t totally buy it. I have a hard time imagining most of these people being better even under FALGSC. I think maybe the cranky internet cynics are right, humans just suck.
The world is a depressing shithole, but it HAS gotten better.
Like the other poster said
Living as a wage slave is probably the best many slaves have had it, but it is still slavery.
Capitalism sucks, but if we were truly fallen we would still be running around dying of cholera every five minutes and bonking each other on the heads non stop. Civilization would have never have gotten off the ground if there wasn't an innate drive towards cooperation in human beings.
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Basically on a global scale, the only way to cope is to assume China is actually doing third world Maoism born from dengism, whereby China having the means of production in their country, after the west gave it to them under Deng, will allow them to indirectly redistribute wealth from the west to China. And China will share this wealth through the belt and road initiative.
And that this indirect wealth distribution from the core to the global south will allow China and the global south to build their own wealth to the point where the west no longer has leverage, or conditions deteriorate in the west to that point, or both. Then leftist thought might be viable as a mainstream position in the west, as the workers will no longer enjoy the same advantage over the rest of the world as they did before.
That's not to say working conditions aren't fucked in the west, they certainly are, but treats seem to be enough to keep the lid on the pot for now.
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Yeah, it's pretty much a form of coping in a way. I think I edited my initial reply to your post with a much longer explanation of this. But it's the only way I can see communism going further than a few AES states, a minimisation or solving of the contradiction in terms of global wealth distribution.
i honestly think said collapse may be faster than most historical ones thanks to mass dementia from covid combined with mass starvation from climate famines and flooding, we will absolutely see it in our lifetimes but it will be horrifying.
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if by "socialist rebuid" you mean complete control over the entire planet, yeah, but if by "socialist rebuild" you mean socialist societies existing in the United States it could be as soon as 20 years if balkanizing is the future in store for us
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it's not optimistic to say people might build communes of 20 farmers in a place after a collapsed state. it would be optimistic to say they would live a happy life free of conflict with the forces of capital though
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deleted by creator
spoiler for disco elysium but i found this really profound :lt-dbyf-dubois:
Rhetoric: The question you mean to ask is both very complicated and incredibly simple...
Endurance: Take a deep breath. Best to go one piece at a time.
You: If communism keeps failing every time we try it...
Steban: (he waits patiently for you to finish)
You: ...And the rest of the world keep killing us for our beliefs...
Steban: Yes?
Volition: Say it.
You: ...What's the point?
Steban: (he considers your words for a minute)
Composure: You're witnessing his ironic armour melt before you. This is his true self you're seeing now.
Empathy: He's thinking about someone...
You: Wait, who is he thinking about?
Empathy: Hard to say. Someone dear to him.
Visual Calculus: Track his gaze. He's looking out past the broken wall, toward the opposite side of the Bay...
You: Toward the skyscrapers of La Delta.
Visual Calculus: They rise like electric obelisks in the night.
Steban: The theorists Puncher and Wattmann — not infra-materialists, but theorists nonetheless — say that communism is a secular version of Perikarnassian theology, that it replaces faith in the divine with faith in humanity's future... I have to say, I've never entirely understood what they mean, but I think maybe the answer is in there, somewhere.
You: Wait, you're saying communism is some kind of religion?
Steban: Only in this very specific sense. Communism doesn't dangle any promises of eternal bliss or reward. The only promise it offers is that the future can be better than the past, if we're willing to work and fight and die for it.
You: But what if humanity keeps letting us down?
Steban: Nobody said fulfilling the proletariat's historic role would be easy. (he smiles a tight smile) It demands great faith with no promise of tangible reward. But that doesn't mean we can simply give up.
You: Even when they ignore us?
Steban: Even then.
Ulixes: Mazov says it's the arrogance of capital that will be its ultimate undoing. It does not believe it can fail, which is why it must fail.
Volition: So young. So unbearably young...
Half Light: Why do you see the two of them with their backs against a bullet-pocked wall, all of a sudden?
Inland Empire: Their faces, blurred yet frozen as though in ambrotype. You were never that young, were you?
Steban: I guess you could say we believe it because it's impossible. (he looks at the scattered matchboxes on the ground) It's our way of saying we refuse to accept that the world has to remain... like this...
Yeah, I've pretty much resigned myself to communism being an utter failure. I've gotten to the point that I just genuinely despise my fellow man and don't want a better world for them. I fantasize about the entire city I live in being raised in nuclear hellfire because I'm just so fed up with these listless, foolish, maladjusted, sad people. I don't buy that this is purely material conditions anymore, pretty sure even under communism most of these people would suck shit and I honestly don't want a better world for them.
Those people in turn are but products of their time. They are sad and angry and maladjusted because they grew up in a human fleshgrinder called Capitalism.
Again I don’t totally buy it. I have a hard time imagining most of these people being better even under FALGSC. I think maybe the cranky internet cynics are right, humans just suck.
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I assume you think of yourself as a good person. If you came to exist, there is surely a way to replicate that path for others.
I simply cannot imagine remaining a leftist while thinking humanity is doomed to be horrible. It seems pointless.
Not really. I mean I’m better now but I used to be a real drunk idiot. The only reason I am better now is largely that I’ve isolated myself more.
It is.
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The world is a depressing shithole, but it HAS gotten better.
Like the other poster said
Capitalism sucks, but if we were truly fallen we would still be running around dying of cholera every five minutes and bonking each other on the heads non stop. Civilization would have never have gotten off the ground if there wasn't an innate drive towards cooperation in human beings.
Misanthropy is liberalism
I was having a shitty night and went a little overly doom pilled
It's okay comrade, we've all been there