I genuinely hate how English is becoming a sort of de facto global language. Just more cultural imperialism. But it's very nice to be able to communicate with comrades from around the world, it might be my favorite aspect of this site. So I do appreciate you all taking effort to think something in your native language, translate it in your head, then type it up in English. Hopefully in FALGSC we'll get our universal translators, too.
For real, learning languages is hard. I had 2 years of Spanish in high school and didn't do too well, something in my brain just didn't click. But maybe you need to use another language a lot to really learn it? I lived in Germany for just two months and by the end I found myself kinda picking up things.
:soviet-heart:
So I do appreciate you all taking effort to think something in your native language, translate it in your head, then type it up in English.
This isn't really how speaking multiple languages works. The human brain is remarkably bad at parallel processing complex tasks. If you want to be proficient in another language you really have to learn to think in that language. It's definitely a skill that can be learned and there's an added bonus of becoming a better listener.
I think native english speakers have no idea how many god damn idioms and similes you people use in everything.
This is completely true. Native English speakers only think of the particularly long and folksy sounding idioms as idioms, the fact that something like "24/7" or "draw the line" is also an idiom is completely missed.
Also English is full of weird constructs where some special collection of words acts as a noun, in a way that doesn't work any other time. And I can't even think of any examples because I am a native English speaker lol.
it helps if you start at a young age. your brain handles languages differently if you learn them young vs as an adult. though even as an adult, these limitations can be tempered with immersion and hard work.
The data is still a bit unclear on that. The best study was done at MIT and actually showed that there was little difference in language mastery ability from childhood until the age of around 20. Also, the top quartile of learners over 20 did just as well as the younger cohort, which could suggest an epiphenomenal explanation for the disparity. It may turn out to be a myth and the brain's ability to assimilate a new language may be pretty consistent throughout the lifespan.
Sorry, I meant structurally, rather than in terms of performance. That's why I added a clarification that the advantages of being young can still be overcome in adulthood.
But MRI studies do show differences in how language is processed/encoded for younger vs older language learners. There are also differences related to exposure to language as an infant, but that's a whole other topic.
It may turn out to be a myth and the brain’s ability to assimilate a new language may be pretty consistent throughout the lifespan.
I hope that is true. Got anything I could read about this?
https://medium.com/@chacon/mit-scientists-prove-adults-learn-language-to-fluency-nearly-as-well-as-children-1de888d1d45f
Constantly having someone trying to speak to you and communicate with you in a language with their main goal being you understand some amount of what they're saying and being able to speak back to them in the same language is a game changer. Only kids get that opportunity normally, or people living in a country where they don't speak the language and their own language is not widely spoken. And those are the two cases where people learn best. Just trying to draw meaning from words on a page or audio recordings is way way harder from a learning perspective.
the best is when you learn multiple languages and your brain invents a new creole. I speak English as my first language, and have been learning Japanese for 5 years now, and Spanish since I was like 14. so my internal monolouge is all 3 mixed, and it is not consistent at all
think something in your native language, translate it in your head, then type it up in English
Ha you would be surprised how often a thought comes out in whatever language and I can't remember how to translate it back to my native language to speak it out. I end up like :biden-troll: 'you know, the thing'.
I suck at translating.
Or the code switching where I'll talk to my parents or other Chinese Canadians and just substitute random english words for Chinese and vice versa to make this incomprehensible sentence that only a very specific subset of people can even parse.
EDIT: Is this how Singaporeans live every day?
I've been to Singapore and yes, they're impossible to understand unless you speak English, Malay and Tamil. The Chinese keep more to themselves.
lingua francas are good imo. they often come about due to hegemonic powers, IE Arabic due to the caliphate, Chinese back in the day, French in the medieval era, Latin in pax Romana for like 1000 years, and English now since the height of British and later American imperialism, which is bad. but, it's cool it forms this backbone of international communication and I'd imagine that one is probably always gonna be a thing, at least in a global region if not worldwide
It makes so much knowledge available to you. I remember having a much easier time in college and grad school writing reports and doing research because i could just default to english with minimal pain, my non-bilingual peers would try to do all their research in our native language first and then branch out when they were having trouble.
And in India it gives us a language that people from different regions can speak to each other. Much of India speaks Hindi, but there are many other languages as well. Some states have gotten really pissed when the govt has tried to make Hindi a compulsory subject nationwide
it’s very nice to be able to communicate with comrades from around the world, it might be my favorite aspect of this site.
with all due respect, and as much as i love this site most of you guys seem to be anglos, or failing that, euros. like there are exceptions but most is the operative word here. i don't mean that in a derogatory sense, just that the demographic here is very much people from the imperial core.
off the top of my head, i know RNAi claims to live in Argentina, then "aaaaasdf" or whatever is from south africa, other posters say they're in china. as far as an english-language website for an american podcast goes, i think we're doing alright for ourselves
yeah immersive language learning is infinitely better. language is picked up through context. I did an 8 week immersive hebrew seminar basically and i became so much more proficient at it then my 11 years of attempting spanish class, and my dad is fluent in spanish :shrug-outta-hecks:
:this: so much.
I'm now rusty af in everything except English due to less social interaction over the past two years because of COVID 19. And English isn't even my first language...
I actually find it easier to write in english than in spanish online because in english we are all talking a standarized americanized verion of the language, but in spanish the few ties that I have written in spanish I had to be very careful of talking in a "neutral" way and not include much slang because if I write in spanish the same way I speak I dont think nobody here that isnt chilean would et it without getting at least a little lost
When Irish folks type like how they speak it's often hard to understand, as an Angloid myself.
I'm Irish and I can't understand half the people here lol. The Irish aural exams, where you have to listen to someone speaking in Gaeilge, are infamous for having impossible accents that sound more like a frog croaking than someone from Ulster
Yeah the wild variance in Spanish spoken between Central America, South America, and the Caribbean is bullshit. I come from the Caribbean and the other day I learned that the way we speak Spanish is more similar to Castellano than the way anyone else in the New World speaks it, which is just wild lol, and kind of explains why I can't understand the rest of you motherfuckers.
Wow, Castellano is so different from the way that we speak spanish I wasnt aware of the Caribbean using it
I think Argentinian Spanish is probably the closest dialect to Castilian. I've also found that Castilian speakers and Argentinian speakers have the biggest superiority complex about their dialect.
So I do appreciate you all taking effort to think something in your native language, translate it in your head, then type it up in English
I'm from Belarus, Russian language native, but been studying English since early teens and at this point I just straight up think in English whenever I'm using it. It's a much weirder experience that random daily thoughts and inner monologue can go in either of the two.
think something in your native language, translate it in your head, then type it up in English
When I speak in Japanese on Japanese sites I actually think in Japanese too. There isn't a translation process of English thought to Japanese speech.
Right that's what I was getting at. When we use second languages we don't think in our original language then convert it we just think and speak in the other language. I often say speaking in Japanese often makes me feel stupid at times because sometimes not having the right words also means not having the right thoughts too, this makes my thoughts feel somewhat child-like and lower in the usual level of what I can produce in terms of thought because I just don't have the right words for some thoughts in that language. It gets very frustrating sometimes and that's when the English comes back.
This discussion just made me realise this raises the importance of reading and expanding vocabulary because the expanded vocabulary is absolutely vital to our thoughts. I should probably have already understood this but for one reason or another it only just clicked for me.
I was about to say this. I'm learning a new language now, and translating in my head is exhausting. I just want to think in it, damn it. But English? i don't even notice i'm thinking in English.
Yeah, I don't even speak any other languages fluently and I know this lmao
Mandarin Chinese might be making a comeback on a grand scale soon
As for me though, my best bet is re-learning Spanish…
learning languages in school can give you an ok foundation, but you need to really use it on a regular basis to get proficient
things like slang just can't really be taught in a classroom
in my experience anywaythink something in your native language, translate it in your head, then type it up in English.
That sounds easy. It all comes at once and I have to tediously disentangle it.
i have native level spanish, b2 in english and i am starting to learn chinese, All for having even more slop to sort throught.
