I was watching this fascinating video lecture by a neurobiology professor and the brain regions that are dimorphic and are correlated with expressions of male and female gender alignment; but the comments devolved on accusations of "trans medicalism". My assumption is that this is an accusation of boiling down transgenderism to sex-characteristics as expressed through the brain, and the possibility of "testing" that would deny transgenderness if the person doesn't have these correlating sizes previously identified in research.

Am I missing something?

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  • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
    hexbear
    21
    4 months ago

    transmedicalism is the reduction of the experience of being trans to a series of medical operations that alter the individual from one sex to the other. this is a nonsensical bigotry that is confounded in social consciousness partly because of a few high profile trans advocates of transmedicalism like buck angel. being trans is of course a complex expression of gender relative to social norms and one's assigned gender at birth. so-called "biological sex" is also not a thing that exists to cleanly separate male and female.

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  • milistanaccount09 [she/her]
    hexbear
    15
    4 months ago

    My assumption is that this is an accusation of boiling down transgenderism to sex-characteristics as expressed through the brain, and the possibility of "testing" that would deny transgenderness if the person doesn't have these correlating sizes previously identified in research.

    you would be correct, that's 100% the concern!

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    • FumpyAer [any, comrade/them]
      hexbear
      16
      4 months ago

      The other aspect is that you don't want to exclude someone from the trans umbrella or trans experience even if they never take medical transition steps such as hormones, genital surgery, top surgery, implants, etc.

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      • marxisthayaca [he/him,they/them]
        hexagon
        hexbear
        7
        4 months ago

        That's true! Fascinating part of the lecture - they did autopsy and brain measurement of trans people that underwent sex-reassignment surgery and those that never underwent said process, but still claimed to be trans, and the specific brain regions matched their self-declared gender.

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  • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
    hexbear
    14
    4 months ago

    To broaden the other definitions offered, it also describes a deification of medical staff and presumes that they have legitimately better ability to define an individuals gender identity and internal feelings, and that therefore people should not be allowed to be trans and access basic tools of transition if not for having been allowed to do so by a doctor.

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    • IzyaKatzmann [he/him]
      hexbear
      6
      4 months ago

      So medical professionals & scientists obviously don't have the end claim on the experience of their patient (early pain research on women, black, independent folks more than indicate that) and what are folks supposed to do if they need to 'pander' or 'placate' professionals for appropriate care, medication, etc.?

      Does it look like another profession, which is more socially involved rather than versed in technical expertise? Medical intervention will always lag behind and be conservative (since we are always learning new stuff) and so it is secondary to an individual or groups situation. You know of anything that makes it so there isn't like a 'single gatekeeper'?

      For my mental disorders I was lucky enough to get diagnosed and so far have care from a physician, and the waitlist for a psychiatrist who are the only ones allowed to explore other treatment options is super long. I get they have great technical expertise, and cmon, it's been years and I have a sense there can be a stop-gap between 'super cold/distant medical person' and 'frontline empathetic social worker'...

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      • @SSJ2Marx
        hexbear
        6
        4 months ago

        what are folks supposed to do if they need to 'pander' or 'placate' professionals for appropriate care

        From what I've heard, many trans people do exactly that - ie, describe how they feel gender dysphoria even if they don't. Over time I think more and more people will be pro trans and over time the doctors who deal with it will learn more and someday trans people won't have to do that when seeking care - but we live in a time where many doctors don't want to provide trans health care at all, and only do so because they can get in trouble for discrimination if they don't, so I say say what you need to say.

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        • IzyaKatzmann [he/him]
          hexbear
          1
          4 months ago

          thankfully DIY options exist at the minimum, and a strong community of support among trans people.

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  • HexBroke [any, comrade/them]
    hexbear
    10
    edit-2
    4 months ago

    brain regions

    All the research on this is basically popular junk with huge replication issues, exclusion of data and massive reliance on averages with no predictive value whatsoever

    See: literally all other brains scan articles

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  • Maoo [none/use name]
    hexbear
    10
    4 months ago

    The only way in which it's okay is in providing a clear case for one way (among many others) in which it's valid to be trans. This can be helpful for getting people who might be reachable to go, "oh there's a biological basis and it isn't hurting anyone okay I'll be pro-trans".

    This is a limited form of support and can quickly get problematic if someone tries to do more with it. And of course libs do exactly that and it's what trans medicalism is known and rightly criticized for, pigeonholing gender identity into a box that the nerds themselves struggle to even define. The act of trying to tie it down into simplistic categories leads, among other things, to reproducing social constructions that are then claimed to be objective realities. And to also then exclude every other consideration, implicitly or explicitly, despite the fact that basically every trans person will tell you some way in which that's incorrect.

    The same approach was used for gay people as well and with similar issues (and a limited positive side). There are people you can get to move away from homophobia through medicalization arguments, like saying someone is born that way so you shouldn't treat it like some kind of choice or "lifestyle" to criticize it. I'm glad this has helped people shed homophobia. But it's also... basically wrong. It's also cool and good to be all kinds of gay/bi/queer even if it's something that develops in you over time, or even deliberately. There are people who have always felt a hard preference/sense of gendered attraction as well as people who have not. There have been many different societal understandings of human sexuality, including what we'd put on the gay spectrum, and that variation in understanding is surely more social than genetic. Folks in my country have gotten gayer over time (which rocks) and it's not because we're a bunch of mutants lol and it's not even just because folks are less closeted. Being able to accept and explore and challenge is also an act of creation - an act of societal co-creation. This also applies to understanding gender.

    So while I'm highly critical of medicalization I do give critical support to the fact that a very limited use of it has made some people less transphobic (overall, ironic).

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  • @SSJ2Marx
    hexbear
    5
    4 months ago

    I dunno about the specific science you're referring to but I've typically heard "trans medicalism" used to denigrate people who think that you can only be trans if there's a medical explanation. So if you believe that someone has to experience gender dysphoria to be trans, then that's trans medicalism and that's bad because the truth is there's a lot of different trans experiences out there that don't all conform to the dysphoria narrative. AFAIK it's somewhat common for trans people seeking medical care to simply say they have dysphoria and use certain "key words" when describing their experience, even if those words are not entirely accurate, because the goal is to get care and most doctors are looking for those key words and they might not be fully up to speed on how diverse and sometimes contradictory peoples' feelings can be in practice.

    There's also a logic trap you can get hung up on with the medical arguments that support the existence of trans people, which is that you might accidentally imply that it's only okay to be trans because there's a medical component. Always remember that even if we never find any "explanation" for why trans people exist, that doesn't mean that they don't - and on the flip side, even if we proved conclusively that being trans was optional and that people were "choosing" to do it, that still wouldn't make it any less valid of an identity to have because we shouldn't believe that there's anything wrong with it.

    But yeah as long as you're not saying that it has to be medical then I don't think you should catch side eye researching the medical side of it, since there definitely is one. Although as some here have pointed out brain scan studies have very limited value.

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  • Angel [any]
    hexbear
    4
    4 months ago

    A steaming pile of horse shit.

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      • Angel [any]
        hexbear
        7
        4 months ago

        I know. I could give a long explanation of the faultiness of it, but quite frankly, it was very kneejerk for me to respond in such a way because transmedicalism has been very harmful to me personally. It's hardly a coherent ideology as much as it's just about "hate and invalidate any trans person that's non-conventionally trans". Heh.

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  • RyanGosling [none/use name]
    hexbear
    2
    edit-2
    4 months ago

    I’m often confused by its application too. I’ve seen people say that gender is biological unlike race, and it’s determined very early irrespective of one’s genitals and can be objectively compared, therefore trans racialism is an invalid comparison since there’s no biological basis for race. But others have said that gender is a social construct so one can be trans for any reason

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