Every once in a while I get that ominous feeling that killing and specially making animals suffer just for me to eat meat, fish and lactose is extremely wrong, but then I kinda forget.

I kinda see myself hunting wild game though so it's weird.

  • MerryChristmas [any]
    6·
    4 years ago

    I don’t see anything wrong with hunting for personal or communal sustenance - pretty much every omnivorous animal on earth does it in some form. I know several leftist vegans who feel the same way, but I don’t think that fits the mainstream vegan narrative. Either way, I do think that factory farmed food products are immoral and I wish I were better about avoiding them.

    Ideally, I’d like to set up an aquaponics-based veggie greenhouse using a breeding tank of tilapia. I also want to keep chickens for eggs but not for meat. I’d occasionally hunt when the need arises, but at least I’d be completely free of factory farms - that’s enough for me to feel like I’m living ethically.

          • ziper1221 [none/use name,comrade/them]
            2·
            4 years ago

            That point wasn't really made in your previous comment, which seems to just conflate suffering and killing. And furthermore I don't really see the parallels here between eating meat and genocide. seems like a bit of a stretch. Humanity has evolved eating all kind of meats, and your point about the genocide killing being 100 percent set isn't even true: the nazis had considered deporting european jews for a while. And where is the abstraction with hunting? The hunter is a discrete entity who manages the whole process. it isn't some factory farm operating behind a veil, everything is plain to them, and the concrete, end goal is the acquisition of food.

              • ziper1221 [none/use name,comrade/them]
                1·
                4 years ago

                Sorry, and on a re-read I don't see the main distinction you make either. I'm not defending hunting defined as the killing of any animal, but as the sustainable and humane (as I define it, which may of course be a sticking point) killing of animals for the maximal use of their products. If you broaden the category of hunting out so far, you could do the same thing with the analogy and say that humans kill humans because of jealousy, self defense, sport, or any other reason. Likewise, it doesn't matter what Bolshevik killed the Romanovs, or if they did with a noose, bullet or bayonet; and it doesn't matter which specific royalty there were, only that they are a species of royalty... the only defining matter is that of class: the same way that class defines the hunter and the prey.

          • ziper1221 [none/use name,comrade/them]
            1·
            4 years ago

            Thanks. I don't find any of the (sustainable) anti-hunting or fishing arguments very compelling, but I did like the bit about extractivist vs participatory vs productivist objections. On a purely hypothetical level, I do find myself aligning with the producitivist view -- if the mad landlord is really going to buy and cook the food anyway, and there is nothing we can do to stop him, is it bad to consume it?

            Also, I don't see why the line should be drawn at plant matter? why are plants ok to eat?

    • crispy_lol [he/him]
      16·
      4 years ago

      It's okay to kill sentient beings guys, animals do it!