Kind of? There's definitely some of that there, though iirc the main characters we see who did war crimes want to do regime change and then be executed for their crimes. That doesn't make it not apologia, but it has more going on than that. As apologia it wasn't all that effective, because the first time I read/watched it I came away from it going 'damn, Scar fucking rules.'
Didn't they want to reform Amestris into a democracy and then put everyone involved in Ishval on trial? I think that included them, but it's possible I'm misremembering something.
Edit: That's not to say it isn't apologia, this is just me trying to get the lore right. If it's meant as apologia it's super muddled, and that wasn't my takeaway as a stupid teenager. I think it was meant as a legitimate critique of imperialism and all that but the author is a lib so wasn't able to go all the way.
And even if they did, that's just the author saying "Actually look at all these noble and honest people who were tricked in to doing things they regret, but actually they're going to make it all right and then nobly let themselves be executed because actually our society is so noble and good and the bad thing that happened was a deviation from the norm".
Like basically the thesis of FMA:B is that that everything Japan did in the 20s and 30s was bad, but the officers who did all the war crimes realized that what they were doing was bad so they overthrew Hitler/Hirohito and instituted liberal reforms and therefore they have totally redeemed themselves. The role of the US in razing Japan to the ground, and the Soviet Union of kicking Germany's teeth in, is completely removed from the Narrative so Japan can redeem itself without the humiliation of losing the war.
It's not a 1 to 1, but the two core elements of the story are the industrial extermination of an entire ethnicity, and the use of science to build super weapons. The techlevel is late interwar or WWII, best shown by the tank, which is clearly inspired by WWII tanks, not WWI era tanks. The main cast are all officers in the fascist military dictatorship that carried out a war using super weapons against civilians. It's not really subtle.
Yes, you'll recall Germany began using gas attacks before world War 1, as well as genociding people who lived in deserts(Damaraland, as well as other exploits in Africa or the near east). I disagree with your assessment of the tech as ww2, outside the tanks(which I have never seen an anime not explicitly about tanks get right. Makes sense, as ww1 tanks look kinda stupid.) everything seems way more world War 1. Amestris is a country with Xing(China) to the East and Russia to the north, as well as colonized deserts to the south on the way to Xing. They're a new nation, only dating back to the 1860s, and a rising industrial powerhouse making (al)chemical advances and constantly at war. Lots of their citizens have blonde hair and blue eyes, but black hair and brown eyes is dominant. Much of their land is still idyllic countryside, even though industrialization is occurring at a rapid pace. Milk is a staple of their diet, as well as beef and sausage. This is pre-war Germany to a T. If that wasn't enough, Edward literally goes to pre-war Germany (and his dad joins the nazis) in the original. Text is always open to interpretation, but their is just overwhelmingly more textual evidence for pre-war Germany as the allegory than interwar Japan.
so what's your point then? I find it way easier to believe the author was just reacting to modernism and imperialism in general and used a country in a time they thought best exemplified it.
That you think this is downplaying or reimagining Japan's atrocities from around ww2. I am making the point that it just lacks the textual evidence that this is about Japan.
Kind of? There's definitely some of that there, though iirc the main characters we see who did war crimes want to do regime change and then be executed for their crimes. That doesn't make it not apologia, but it has more going on than that. As apologia it wasn't all that effective, because the first time I read/watched it I came away from it going 'damn, Scar fucking rules.'
I dont think they intend to get executed, they wanna get into power and reform society away from the ancient conspiracy thing.
Didn't they want to reform Amestris into a democracy and then put everyone involved in Ishval on trial? I think that included them, but it's possible I'm misremembering something.
Edit: That's not to say it isn't apologia, this is just me trying to get the lore right. If it's meant as apologia it's super muddled, and that wasn't my takeaway as a stupid teenager. I think it was meant as a legitimate critique of imperialism and all that but the author is a lib so wasn't able to go all the way.
And even if they did, that's just the author saying "Actually look at all these noble and honest people who were tricked in to doing things they regret, but actually they're going to make it all right and then nobly let themselves be executed because actually our society is so noble and good and the bad thing that happened was a deviation from the norm".
Like basically the thesis of FMA:B is that that everything Japan did in the 20s and 30s was bad, but the officers who did all the war crimes realized that what they were doing was bad so they overthrew Hitler/Hirohito and instituted liberal reforms and therefore they have totally redeemed themselves. The role of the US in razing Japan to the ground, and the Soviet Union of kicking Germany's teeth in, is completely removed from the Narrative so Japan can redeem itself without the humiliation of losing the war.
Note: I love FMA:B but that doesn't change the story it's trying to tell.
...did it never occur to you that Amestris was Germany circa 1910's? You're really pushing a WW2 allegory I just don't think is there.
It's not a 1 to 1, but the two core elements of the story are the industrial extermination of an entire ethnicity, and the use of science to build super weapons. The techlevel is late interwar or WWII, best shown by the tank, which is clearly inspired by WWII tanks, not WWI era tanks. The main cast are all officers in the fascist military dictatorship that carried out a war using super weapons against civilians. It's not really subtle.
https://fma.fandom.com/wiki/Briggs_Tank
Yes, you'll recall Germany began using gas attacks before world War 1, as well as genociding people who lived in deserts(Damaraland, as well as other exploits in Africa or the near east). I disagree with your assessment of the tech as ww2, outside the tanks(which I have never seen an anime not explicitly about tanks get right. Makes sense, as ww1 tanks look kinda stupid.) everything seems way more world War 1. Amestris is a country with Xing(China) to the East and Russia to the north, as well as colonized deserts to the south on the way to Xing. They're a new nation, only dating back to the 1860s, and a rising industrial powerhouse making (al)chemical advances and constantly at war. Lots of their citizens have blonde hair and blue eyes, but black hair and brown eyes is dominant. Much of their land is still idyllic countryside, even though industrialization is occurring at a rapid pace. Milk is a staple of their diet, as well as beef and sausage. This is pre-war Germany to a T. If that wasn't enough, Edward literally goes to pre-war Germany (and his dad joins the nazis) in the original. Text is always open to interpretation, but their is just overwhelmingly more textual evidence for pre-war Germany as the allegory than interwar Japan.
Yeah that's why it's an allegory and not a costume drama.
The bad guy is called the Führer how much clearer do you want it to be?
so what's your point then? I find it way easier to believe the author was just reacting to modernism and imperialism in general and used a country in a time they thought best exemplified it.
Pretty sure I stated my point very clearly about five comments up.
That you think this is downplaying or reimagining Japan's atrocities from around ww2. I am making the point that it just lacks the textual evidence that this is about Japan.
I disagree with your argument.
Ok. Where do you see the flaw?