The brokest hoes be the loudest
This is just the prelude/excuse to austerity. It’s happening one way or another. Europe is truly fucked.
They've been doing austerity. I think they might start taxing people's savings. It's the only way to get money without outright stealing it.
Little secret here...
Taxation is theft...
Just not how lolbertarians imagine it to be
a region with currency sovereignty running out of money
Gibberish.
Eurozone countries don't have currency sovereignty, that was the whole point of the Euro, to "discipline" states and prevent them from spending by putting the printing press in Frankfurt
Individual Eurozone countries can run out of money, yes, but that's not what the finance minister said.
The finance minister said "Europe" has run out of money, which is gibberish.
The EU countries under eurozone has no currency sovereignty because money creation is subjugated to the European Central Bank but every member state has their own separate fiscal policies, and the ECB has no mechanism to absorb the imbalances between different member states.
It will go down in history as one of the stupidest ideas humankind has ever implemented in practice.
But in reality it’s not so “stupid” because neoliberal bankers in the rich countries like France and Germany made a lot of profit out of it, and will use this “running out of money” excuse to impose austerity and extract even more wealth and funnel them to the very top 0.1%.
money creation is subjugated to the European Central Bank but every member state has their own separate fiscal policies, and the ECB has no mechanism to absorb the imbalances between different member states
wait fr? they can't just coordinate printing more money? what a bunch of jokers lmao
The Euro was designed by the US to fuck over Europe, and the European private banks went along with it because it put them in virtually completely control.
The Eurozone was designed to foreclose on Keynesian economics and ensure neoliberalism.
I’ve read & heard it from Michael Hudson, Yanis Varoufakis, and Radhika Desai. Maybe the first time I heard the history of it was in an early episode of Geopolitical Economy Hour.
But he specifically said Europe is running out of money. If he means France is running out of money, that's a different problem because it's like you said. It's actually quite similar to how the US has currency sovereignty but individual US states have to have balanced budgets.
Europe really should be ruled by Moscow as a colony. No money printing, no voting, just give it to them! THEY WANT IT! I WANT IT!
Putin would still be a better leader of Florida than Desantis, so
buy our bonds we might not freeze them, if you behave
things countries with export surplus like to hear
You take people's money and you can say goodbye to the EU.
This is so fucking stupid. Even the tories understand that you don't fuck with people's savings, respecting the triple lock on pensions and the like. The vast majority of savings are held either by elderly people preparing to survive on it, or by the financial class.
Every single one of them will turn on the project. There will be a very significant number of bourgeoisie joining the side of trying to end the EU at this news.
There will be a very significant number of bourgeoisie joining the side of trying to end the EU at this news.
I don't think so, the alternative would be to go after them. They'll probably support this "begrudgingly"
Having their cash stores raided vs ending the EU, they'll take the latter. Will be a spike in far right funding and support coming from them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in this instance, it sounds like the system is collapsing really hard on itself???
It sounds like what he wants to do is create an investment product for people with savings. So instead of having it on your bank account you give it to the EU / member government to invest. The idea is then that it is wisely invested and thus creates profit that can be payed back as interest. So not that radical. The fact that they resort to this of course is another indication that the sanctions are backfiring immensely, but to me it doesn’t sound like the apocalypse.
Edit: although the fact that he keeps rambling on about AI makes me think a lot of Western European upper middle class families will loose some of their savings after the money disappears in some kind of AI Blockchain scheme. Or more realistically they get their savings + interest but governments need to cut healthcare spending to cover it.
Yeah, it is. The thing is 35000 billion euros is a lot of money and can absolutely improve Europe's manufacturing capabilities, and fund social programs for people. The problem is he's talking about going into "European's savings" which I have no idea what he means. I'm under the assumption that they'll start taxing savings, bc just taking people's cash is too extreme.
Just pathetic, but hey! Ukraine is a dead end that I'm happy exists for the sheer fact that it dries up the garden!
Hey, so am i! Didn't realize I had so much in common with a group of states
What do you mean? They raise prices and increase inflation, that means people have to spend their savings. Problem solved!
Oh that's gonna happen with or without their direct meddling.
I truly can't wait to be homeless and jobless with everything around me falling apart.
I’m afraid of all the good parks and bridges being taken by previous waves of homeless people by the time it’s mine turn to be kicked onto the streets.
It might also just accelerate the fascicisation of Europe, which is likely good for no-one, let alone for Europe's working class. Unless one's holds to some kind of accelerationist theory of revolutionary conditions.
Think about it this way: the defeat of Nazi Germany by the Soviet Union in 1945 delayed the fascistization of Europe by about 80-100 years. It was always bound to happen as soon as the Soviet Union is gone.
An entire generation of european communists was lost, killed as a result of fascism. Remember how much the young USSR and it's people suffered because of it.
I'm just not seeing the argument apart from a pessimistic/accelerationist argument. Fascism is not going to make construction of socialism easier; I don't see how it won't make it immeasurably more difficult. Even if fascism is inevitable, you'd also have to argue that it should be sped up, which is where it just doesn't seem like a serious argument to me, because surely the European working class should be given and requires more time to develop?
If anything I've read too much theory comrade. I'm fully familiar with the arguments you're citing, though personally I disagree. I disgree with the third-word The Leninist concept of labor aristocracy, though useful (which is not to say we can't disagree with Lenin: he was a man of his time and what wrong on several points, though not the most important), I think often gets used in a really metaphysical and binary way. The Western proletariat certainly has advantageous conditions of life which are due to imperialism. That goes without saying. However no-where in what Lenin writes, not according to class interest, must the Western proletariat necessarily perceive I think people often make far too much of the idea that the Western working class consciously knows exactly what its supposedly reactionary interests are in that way. That's not the way that class is lived or experienced. At times that might come through, such as when they vote for the far right in elections during a recession and high levels of immigration, but I think it's a big assumption to suppose that their have a perfect understanding of their class interest when they do that. They certainly don't seem to have a rational grasp on it when you speak to them, and so the only way of supporting the argument then seems to me to be to argue that there is some subconscious, structural or superstructural determination of their reactionary positions as in their class interest whether they are conscious of this or not; but this seems deeply unscientific and unverifiable to me - regardless, I think there a bunch of basic arguments, including from Marx himself, which make clear that it is the very nature of capitalism, understood in terms of its class system, which makes the class interests of the working class opposed to that of their bourgeoisie.
The Western proletariat does have a class interest in ending capitalism. The large majority of them have not seen their living standards increase since the 70s, and I strongly believe that their conditions of life would be far healthier and more fulfilling were they to live in socialist and communist societies. Otherwise my fear is that we're using a very reductive understanding of what class interest or quality of life means, making it excessively consumerist, thereby reproducing mystifying capitalist categories. My fear is that it devolves in a stereotype of vulgar materialism, as opposed to the far more open method of historical materialism which Marx uses (I'm not going to touch on dialectical materialism as that's more controversial a concept).
Practically, it seems to negate a really basic and essential for of solidarity, and would suggest that every communist in the West should give up, leave the West, or wish for the death of their loved ones. Even practically I don't see it as a coherent strategy, given not only the previous comment but also because the idea that the working classes of the Global South are consciously very progressive politically is unfortunately often not the case, which is clear to anyone who has lived outside of the West. This is ofc a different point to whether or not there are geopolitical and global economic processes which lead certain geopolitical blocs or their working class populations to take certain views and positions which are progressive as historical material movements. For instance I can simultaneously say at Hamas and the Houthis, in their domestic contexts, are high reactionary in a bunch of ways, while also recognizing that their struggles against Israel and US imperialism are very progressive as far as geopolitics goes. I'd argue that Russia is more ambiguous. I still think that a fully successful communist revolution must be global and so will require a revolution in the imperial core, as Marx, Engels, Lenin, and most communists have thought.
I also think there's some ambiguity in what we mean by 'strong' and 'develop past neoliberalism' in what you've written. Neoliberalism was a political process of change in policy to reestablish conditions of profitability through programs of austerity. It's not a different kind of mode of production. It's still capitalism. This is historical and therefore can, and will, end. Other modes of production will emerge. So I guess you might be suggesting that the West will simply go fascist? I'm also add that I don't think that revolutions are simply matters of the military strength of the power, but broader socio-economic conditions, though if the question is whether the conditions of the working class will need to become more critical before revolutionary conditions emerge, then I'd certainly agree. Nevertheless that doesn't imply that the immediate target should be the immiseration of the Western working class.
Obviously this is a theoretical disagreement, not a personal attack. Feel free to let me know what you think comrade.
This has little to do with “inevitability” but the fact that Western neoliberalism has won the Cold War.
It is indeed rooted in materialism, and what we’re describing here is the objective process under which fascism takes hold of Europe.
Every step along the way, from the center left alliance with fascists to crush communist movements in the 1910-s-20s, to the post-war European center left embarking on a class collaborationist project with capital, under the guise of Keynesian social democracy, because they wanted so desperately to distance themselves from the “horrors of Stalinism”, during which the temporary truce raised the living standards of the working class for about 30 years, until its own inevitable defeat by neoliberalism in the 1970s and the frantic embrace of neoliberalism by the social democratic parties themselves. And let’s not forget that the social democrats fully participated in neutering and weeding out the radical left wing factions throughout the Cold War. Not surprising at all that Europe went full neoliberalism immediately following the fall of the Soviet Union, with their austerity program and the dismantling of social programs across the board.
Like, none of this is even controversial. Many would agree that European social democracy worked only because they were afraid of the Soviet Union agitating the discontent suffered by their own working class. I don’t even have to convince you of the consequences. Every single European social democratic country (including the Nordic social democracy) has gone reactionary, and has elected or is in the process of electing their far right reactionary governments. I don’t even have to convince you of that because it is already happening right before our eyes.
Again, this is simply the objective process under which the confluence of Western imperialism, anti-communism, social democracy and neoliberalism ultimately give way to fascism. And if the status quo is not dramatically changed, their motions would continue as certain as the celestial bodies moving through the galaxy. And the fact is, neoliberalism won the Cold War, and the status quo has been preserved.
Jokes on you Bruno, I don't have any savings
He also said that "we will collapse the Russian economy" I kid you not
Can't wait for a random third world leader to be accused of having a discord femboy minors harem or some crazy ass shit
Interesting example of how neoliberal strategies of extending the reach of financial instruments seems to inevitably come for the lower and middle classes' (or broad working class's) savings.
I haven't had the time to look at the proposals in any detail, but in essence, it seems that he's just restating the classic economic logic that the source of investment is savings, and so if there is a mismatch between them, this will cause a negative output gap in growth, both due to demand and suppl-side factors. It is also obviously motivated by the concerns of mainstream economists that the lagging productivity (in particular of labor, because labour is the source of all value and how they form a common unit of value and productivity measurement, as Marx understood) is a serious issue and that AI is the way to deal with it. Also interesting the classic decrepit European realization that they are falling behind the US and China (and Russia, for that matter) on these fronts. Though it is strange how that ignores other key factors determining investment, like expected returns and interest rates (which are rising). Also, if private businesses are already unwilling to invest because they know that savings and income are too low, and people not willing enough to engage in borrowing sprees, to make their expected returns on investment profitable, then how would an investment fund financed with savings deal with this issue? He might argue that more efficient capital markets and new investment vehicles leverage savings might deal with that, but it is again not clear to me that the private sector is going to be that motivated. Most of the interest of private firms so far in AI has been either in superficial labor-saving areas like branding, website design, and potentially in more efficient systems of labor surveillance, monitoring, control and time-management, as opposed to any real tremendous gains in real labor productivity, though the future is ofc an unknown country. It also seems to ignore the naturally monopolistic tendencies of a sector like investment in advanced AI software and hardware, which would not suggest to me that the Europeans can easily compete with the US or China, who have a head-start in terms of concentration, advantages of scale and greater levels of government support.
Funny also how none of the French liberals are asking which social group's savings are going to bear the brunt of this. There is ofc no mention of the trillions in the bourgeoisie's offshore bank accounts. Given the high rates of taxes (at least perceived) in France already it's not clear how this would be popular with anybody.
Most of the interest of private firms so far in AI has been either in superficial labor-saving areas like branding, website design, and potentially in more efficient systems of labor surveillance, monitoring, control and time-management, as opposed to any real tremendous gains in real labor productivity, though the future is ofc an unknown country.
All labour-saving is also productivity enhancing. You can't get rid of labour without enhancing the labour output of remaining labourers (even if it also degrades the quality of their work).
Do it you fucking neo-aristo slugs, make everyone hate you directly instead of just abstractly