Those are valid complaints, and all day fuck Joe biden, but at the end of the day I am not an accelerationist. I see no argument from a leftist perspective for not voting for our shitty option unless you think things getting worse will make them better faster. What is the outcome you have in mind? Don't vote to stick it to the libs, trump gets elected and then we all suffer that much more? For what?
Your choice isn't between accelerationism or not, it's how funny your buffoon in chief will be.
Considering the last 4 years of actual events, what makes you think your friends will be any safer under Biden than Trump? He hasn't stopped any of the anti-trans legislation during his presidency, or anti-abortion, or anti-immigrant - who are you trying to protect? Who do you think you are protecting by voting 100% Hitler instead of 100% Hitler?
It's the difference between lackluster do nothing, or active harm. Biden hasn't stopped it but he's not using his platform to push it. That's a small difference but it's a difference that effects actual people. Is one person not enough for you? Either all must be saved or just let other people make the choices? If you can't have who you want you don't get the privilege of not getting something. Your going to get something weather you like it or not. And I know I'm not going to be the target under trump. I don't have the right to say the people who would be targets arent worth it.
And how many of these would still be happening under trump? You act like if you don't vote that there's a chance neither will happen. One or the other will become a reality. Which would you rather live in for your immediate future? None isn't an option.
I get what your saying. I'm saying that when they both are the same, the degrees by which they commit these atrocities is the only thing up for consideration. In that scenario my morals dictate that I must advocate for the side I thing will ultimately result in less tragedy, even if I believe that to be slight. A single life makes it worth it.
We don't have to agree friend. I know this is a touchy subject for us, especially now and I'm sorry for implying that I was in any way morally superior for my choice over yours and I hope you feel the same. Ultimately the only thing this conversation effects is me and you right now. My vote and your lack of one will change nothing. Neither of us can stop it. Let us not be angry.
Buddy, I'm just tired of arguing over something we both agree doesn't even fucking matter. I apologize for grandstanding, I let myself get emotional about justifications that only really apply to me and my state of mind.
I am trying to take the high road in the sense I want to be less angry about it. I want to be less angry and less emotional about something we both agree doesn't matter.
Like, saying I support all that shit for what? You know I fucking dont. I wouldn't be here if I did. Your just angry and being insulting and I just don't want to fight about it anymore. Weather you like it or not, we are still comrades and trying to act like the issue of voting, which we both know doesn't do anything ultimately anyways changes that is why I want to stop arguing.
We are too angry, too emotional, about fucking nothing. And I'm sorry I pushed it this far. I knew how it'd be seen and I wanted to argue my case anyways. I didn't come into it with the ability to be convinced and neither did you. It was pointless to start and has done nothing but make my night one of insomnia. So I'm sorry. Hate me if you want. I'm just trying to genuinely tell you I'm sorry for letting it get here.
I think I realise why this guy is making me so mad. I would've been this "well meaning" left-lib white-splaining why "lesser evilism" is great actually about a decade ago. I see my own past smug ignorance in this guy. Someone getting angry at me and calling me out on my bullshit helped me along the path to understanding how ignorant and smug I was being, while thinking I was "helping" disenfranchised people, when the only thing I was really helping was my own ego.
I hope they take this conversation to heart and actually listen to what we've been saying to them, and seek to understand our opposition to them instead of trying to pull this "reaching across aisle, we can agree to disagree" lib shit. I do think they "mean well" they're just completely unaware of how harmful and impotent their attitudes actually are.
That's the thing, they think it is genuine. They think they are "seeing the person on the other side of the screen" and we are failing to do the same. Any time I ever see anyone trying to remind the person they're talking to to "remember the human" it's always someone insisting on "humanity for me, not for thee."
They just flatly aren't understanding that we've seen plenty of people in their position before, and seen those people get better and improve, and examine their own beliefs critically.
I've seen this exact thing in plenty of local organising (and in myself). The guy who encourages us to vote for the "least bad" candidate in bourgeoisie election and discourages others from reading or actively doing anything they find uncomfortable because it "won't help." Finding some excuse as to why their way of doing this is the only correct one, and when they receive pushback, it is always just "people talking past each other" even when it's literally everyone else in the room telling them that they understand their position, but their position is not an acceptable one to have.
It's always a comfortable middle class white guy doing it as well. Someone so used to eating up all the oxygen in the room that they just flat out aren't even aware that they are doing it.
And yeah, their constant insistence that we are "friends" is just code for "This conversation is challenging my pre-concieved notions and making me feel uncomfortable, so stop doing that." but again, they don't seem to realise that we've seen this before, and know how bullshit they're being.
Yeah, I just saw that, funny how the left libs always talk about respecting people, but abandon that respect the instant they are no longer treated as The Most Important Person In The Room. I think this was just a mistake on their part, but we'll see. I have a feeling that their apology (if they even acknowledge that they misgendered you) will be incredibly backhanded and blaming you for their actions.
It was even worse than I thought! You should read it, it's hilarious. They're lucky it's late and I need to head to bed soon, or else I'd probably spend the next couple of hours dunking on this shitlib who thinks they're a communist because they're "open minded" or some shit.
What is up with you calling me a fascist genocider? Is that really the line for you? If you could kill me right now would you? Am I deserving of that to you? Another guy in the thread thinks so. Tell me you want a fellow communist dead because of a disagreement on voting.
Y'all forget that this text box is a whole ass human being on the other end trying to genuinely connect and talk with you. I didn't come into this conversation to be convinced and that was poor conditions for this conversation, and your going to throw around your big enemy words to what, guilt me? Make me feel bad? Just wanna hurt me? What do you want from me?
Do not belittle me so. likewise do not talk down to me as if this is some matter of "heated emotions" or something. You are not the first fashy "we see you, we hear you" lib I've met. If you truly respected me as a comrade as you claim, then you would not consign my words to being uttered unknowingly in anger.
Completely unrelated but thank you for putting into words what pisses me off so much about my dumbass lib-Trot housemate
Those are valid complaints, and all day fuck Joe biden, but at the end of the day I am not an accelerationist. I see no argument from a leftist perspective for not voting for our shitty option unless you think things getting worse will make them better faster. What is the outcome you have in mind? Don't vote to stick it to the libs, trump gets elected and then we all suffer that much more? For what?
Your choice isn't between accelerationism or not, it's how funny your buffoon in chief will be.
Considering the last 4 years of actual events, what makes you think your friends will be any safer under Biden than Trump? He hasn't stopped any of the anti-trans legislation during his presidency, or anti-abortion, or anti-immigrant - who are you trying to protect? Who do you think you are protecting by voting 100% Hitler instead of 100% Hitler?
It's the difference between lackluster do nothing, or active harm. Biden hasn't stopped it but he's not using his platform to push it. That's a small difference but it's a difference that effects actual people. Is one person not enough for you? Either all must be saved or just let other people make the choices? If you can't have who you want you don't get the privilege of not getting something. Your going to get something weather you like it or not. And I know I'm not going to be the target under trump. I don't have the right to say the people who would be targets arent worth it.
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And how many of these would still be happening under trump? You act like if you don't vote that there's a chance neither will happen. One or the other will become a reality. Which would you rather live in for your immediate future? None isn't an option.
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Stop othering me. We are still comrades here.
I get what your saying. I'm saying that when they both are the same, the degrees by which they commit these atrocities is the only thing up for consideration. In that scenario my morals dictate that I must advocate for the side I thing will ultimately result in less tragedy, even if I believe that to be slight. A single life makes it worth it.
We don't have to agree friend. I know this is a touchy subject for us, especially now and I'm sorry for implying that I was in any way morally superior for my choice over yours and I hope you feel the same. Ultimately the only thing this conversation effects is me and you right now. My vote and your lack of one will change nothing. Neither of us can stop it. Let us not be angry.
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Buddy, I'm just tired of arguing over something we both agree doesn't even fucking matter. I apologize for grandstanding, I let myself get emotional about justifications that only really apply to me and my state of mind.
I am trying to take the high road in the sense I want to be less angry about it. I want to be less angry and less emotional about something we both agree doesn't matter.
Like, saying I support all that shit for what? You know I fucking dont. I wouldn't be here if I did. Your just angry and being insulting and I just don't want to fight about it anymore. Weather you like it or not, we are still comrades and trying to act like the issue of voting, which we both know doesn't do anything ultimately anyways changes that is why I want to stop arguing.
We are too angry, too emotional, about fucking nothing. And I'm sorry I pushed it this far. I knew how it'd be seen and I wanted to argue my case anyways. I didn't come into it with the ability to be convinced and neither did you. It was pointless to start and has done nothing but make my night one of insomnia. So I'm sorry. Hate me if you want. I'm just trying to genuinely tell you I'm sorry for letting it get here.
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I think I realise why this guy is making me so mad. I would've been this "well meaning" left-lib white-splaining why "lesser evilism" is great actually about a decade ago. I see my own past smug ignorance in this guy. Someone getting angry at me and calling me out on my bullshit helped me along the path to understanding how ignorant and smug I was being, while thinking I was "helping" disenfranchised people, when the only thing I was really helping was my own ego.
I hope they take this conversation to heart and actually listen to what we've been saying to them, and seek to understand our opposition to them instead of trying to pull this "reaching across aisle, we can agree to disagree" lib shit. I do think they "mean well" they're just completely unaware of how harmful and impotent their attitudes actually are.
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That's the thing, they think it is genuine. They think they are "seeing the person on the other side of the screen" and we are failing to do the same. Any time I ever see anyone trying to remind the person they're talking to to "remember the human" it's always someone insisting on "humanity for me, not for thee."
They just flatly aren't understanding that we've seen plenty of people in their position before, and seen those people get better and improve, and examine their own beliefs critically.
I've seen this exact thing in plenty of local organising (and in myself). The guy who encourages us to vote for the "least bad" candidate in bourgeoisie election and discourages others from reading or actively doing anything they find uncomfortable because it "won't help." Finding some excuse as to why their way of doing this is the only correct one, and when they receive pushback, it is always just "people talking past each other" even when it's literally everyone else in the room telling them that they understand their position, but their position is not an acceptable one to have.
It's always a comfortable middle class white guy doing it as well. Someone so used to eating up all the oxygen in the room that they just flat out aren't even aware that they are doing it.
And yeah, their constant insistence that we are "friends" is just code for "This conversation is challenging my pre-concieved notions and making me feel uncomfortable, so stop doing that." but again, they don't seem to realise that we've seen this before, and know how bullshit they're being.
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Yeah, I just saw that, funny how the left libs always talk about respecting people, but abandon that respect the instant they are no longer treated as The Most Important Person In The Room. I think this was just a mistake on their part, but we'll see. I have a feeling that their apology (if they even acknowledge that they misgendered you) will be incredibly backhanded and blaming you for their actions.
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It was even worse than I thought! You should read it, it's hilarious. They're lucky it's late and I need to head to bed soon, or else I'd probably spend the next couple of hours dunking on this shitlib who thinks they're a communist because they're "open minded" or some shit.
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What is up with you calling me a fascist genocider? Is that really the line for you? If you could kill me right now would you? Am I deserving of that to you? Another guy in the thread thinks so. Tell me you want a fellow communist dead because of a disagreement on voting.
Y'all forget that this text box is a whole ass human being on the other end trying to genuinely connect and talk with you. I didn't come into this conversation to be convinced and that was poor conditions for this conversation, and your going to throw around your big enemy words to what, guilt me? Make me feel bad? Just wanna hurt me? What do you want from me?
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Completely unrelated but thank you for putting into words what pisses me off so much about my dumbass lib-Trot housemate
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Mutual aid
Edit:
You are no comrade. Delete your useless account, you stupid, breying jackass