Honestly, as pessimistic as I am, I think that it's representative of the sorta default position of the vast majority of humanity when you strip away all the politicking and propagandisement and partisanship.
If you like philosophy then this is basically what Rawls put forward in his veil of ignorance. If you take the average lib in the US who doesn't have any horse in the race, it's extremely easy to align with the oppressed over the oppressor and to take a position of demanding justice.
Like, if you wrote a sci-fi or fantasy novel that was basically a blow-by-blow account of the lead up to the October Revolution and what followed it in the proceeding 75 or so years except in a different settings using different names, you're going to find that the overwhelming majority of people are going to take a pro-soviet position without realising it.
Unfortunately the closer you get to what I guess I'd refer to as "internal" politics, in the sense that it's internal to the political order of the nation although not necessarily internal in the sense that it is inwardly-focused (think how the Vietnam War was very much central to US politics when it was happening and so it defined a lot of US internal politics at the time, or the first Gulf War and the relative importance that Kuwait had at that time where these days Kuwait or Vietnam have since receded from being centre-stage) then the more partisan the issue becomes and the greater the efforts to propagandise the issue and so on, meaning that the average person is going to be more likely to align to the State Department line the more a particular issue is central to the internal politics of the day.
Of course this relies upon a degree of "objectivity" in relation to the info that a person has; most Americans would (or at least would have) agreed that Maduro stole the Venezuelan presidency from Guaido and they might even tell you that Guaido had a right to assume leadership of Venezuela under the constitution, although they'd never be able to explain that under the constitution that provision only allows for him to assume that role if a president has not already been sworn in by the supreme court (which had already happened with Maduro during the manufactured crisis caused by the National Assembly obstructionism) nor that under that provision Guaido would only have been able to assume a temporary role of benchwarmer/caretaker in the executive seat with which to maintain stability of the government while his primary task was to ensure that a general election is held within... idk, I can't remember exactly but it is like 90 days, or something along those lines, and I cbf digging up the particular article in question in the Venezuelan constitution right now because nobody really cares that much and that includes me.
Obviously Guaido, upon claiming that he was the leader of Venezuela, had a constitutionally-defined ticking clock from the day he made the claim over the presidency to call for a general election in Venezuela which never happened because it was nothing more than a shitty attempt at a soft coup but nobody in the US has ever fucking read the Venezuelan constitution so they're only going to be as good as the information they receive or, less likely, actually seek out. No investigation, no right to speak and all that.
Like, if you wrote a sci-fi or fantasy novel that was basically a blow-by-blow account of the lead up to the October Revolution and what followed it in the proceeding 75 or so years except in a different settings using different names, you're going to find that the overwhelming majority of people are going to take a pro-soviet position without realising it.
Brb going to write this book
I mean George Lucas did this with Star Wars and the Viet Cong. He said so himself. And aside from the empire did nothing wrong weirdos (which are mostly ironic, I hope), the majority of the people support the Rebels.
I was under the impression that Israel's active genocide has significantly increased support for Palestine, even within otherwise apolitical groups. It seems that the only entities still "really" supportive of Israel's actions are Western governments and Zionists. With the widespread exposure of IOF atrocities on platforms like Twitter, it's challenging to alter the narrative when such brutality is openly displayed.
Cant talk about the subreddit but that was my experience in some places that otherwise are not really that political.
I was under the impression that Israel's active genocide has significantly increased support for Palestine, even within otherwise apolitical groups.
Which is funny, because I remember when this all kicked off, libs were saying "This was a stupid move by Hamas! Their brutality will cost them all of their international support!" Except, of course, Hamas knows their enemy way better than any chauvinist lib. They knew Israel was going to be Israel, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was exactly what they were counting on.
That makes sense, I just very surprised. I popped in for dunktank farming and found a ton of Palestinian solidarity. This is the sort of place that I would not expect that from, hence the dunk tank farming attempt
I haven't spent any time on Reddit since discovering Lemmy last summer, but what I remember of that subreddit's culture makes me similarly surprised about the vibe you found. That's honestly kinda cool and awesome and maybe a little hopeful.
I’m just worried it’s chuds who found an “acceptable” outlet for antisemitism. But it seems to be mod supported and somewhat imposed on a large chunk of the user base. Maybe some key people got reached?
I'd expect NonCredibleDefense to be more a dunk tank farm at least as long as Israel is genociding. Once that ends, all bets are off regarding PublicFreakout.
I don’t have the defense rating to go there, people who should be walled one and all.
The chuds are still there, but the comments and posts are full of stuff you’d see here like:”actually the creation of Israel was an antisemitic act that was the culmination of trying to get Jewish people out of Europe” and stuff like posting that IDF guy who attacked a protestor in America.
Part of me chalks it up to chuds accidentally seeming to be on the right side because of their bigotry and still in the wrong of course. But it seems like a shift has actually occurred.
It really seems like a lot of “apolitical” types who would frequent such places are genuinely waking up.
Is this a “yes, hope exists” moment or or am I missing the forest of hate that these trees could be a part of?
There's quite a few subreddits that fly under the administration radar but are full of mods and users with good takes on Palestine. A good one is /r/lostgeneration. Nominally it's a millennial-bitch-fest kind of place with lots of that bullshit anti-boomer generational-war crap that's a distraction from the real war (the class war). But when the topic turns to Palestine, they're firmly on the correct side of history.
iirc they were also pretty good during the george floyd protests. This is what radical centrism looks like I guess.
It comes and goes in waves, was one of the better
communities for 2020 protest footage.Yeah, it’s probably a problem but I like the fight footage because it reassures me.
The posts making fun of enraged Kyle/Karen types are also nice because I work retail mostly.
I love how reactionaries split almost as much as other, leftist, strains of thought.
It’s because it’s going on right now in a different country. Wait till a cop kills someone and they’ll all complain about people burning down a Gucci store and ruining small businesses like Louis Vuitton
