Well, thank you for trying I guess. If you wanna keep it up, you can try "immigrants aren't the same as settlers backed by a violent settler colonial state - the state is illegal; humans are not." but I doubt that would work.
The logic I'm trying to use is that the state, in this case, Israel, but in the past, America, Canada and other settler colonial states, are illegal in their attempts to colonize, displace, and genocide the native populations of the land (whether the laws of the time reflect that or not - even then, Israel's West Bank settlements are still illegal). And morally, there is a difference between "illegal immigrants" crossing borders made by these settler colonial states vs. these settlers taking over indigenous land with the backing of a violent state apparatus.
Like, Omar's statement, "no humans are illegal" can even apply to the Israelis in the West Bank provided there is no backing (no state/private funding, no military/police protection) of those settlers and it isn't accompanied by the simultaneous denial of that statement (no humans are illegal i.e. worth living, protecting) to the Palestinians living in West Bank. This is clearly not the case. There is a double standard here, i.e. apartheid. That's why comparing West Bank settlements to immigrant in the US or other countries is a false dichotomy.
Yeah, the person you're replying to is just wrong.
Firstly, we're talking specifically about West Bank settlements. No point shifting the discussion into the whole of Israel (where they are also wrong - it is a settler colonial project. There is no debate to be had about that. There can be a debate about what to do with the people living there currently, but not with the fact that it is one).
Destiny and Omar have a disagreement on human's "being illegal". This is preposterous. One of the primary objections decent people have to the framing is that fact that humans aren't illegal. We aren't fucking property. We are sentient, living, breathing, self-conscious creatures. Calling humans illegals is dehumanizing, no different from any other term used in our recent past. Everyone knows illegal immigration occurs, and many liberals like to say they want to increase legal immigration and make it easier to attain citizenship. That's a separate fucking topic - the people who come in legally are richer, more well educated, tend to be from whiter and model minority communities (and I'm not even getting into the intra-Asian racism and schisms here - look into the difference between which Asian people tend to actually be "model minorities" and which do not, i.e. who actually earn high incomes, immigrate legally etc. and who do not).
The fact that Destiny and this fan of his use the term so willingly is proof that they do not consider immigrants as fully humans, they refuse to fully empathize with them - and this proven by the statement "illegal immigration shouldn't be happening". This statement is just thrown in there with no explanation, no justification, just assuming people will agree with it. No. Why should "illegal immigration" not be happening? What's wrong with it? Who are these people? Why are they immigrating? What forces them to come in illegally? What forces them to stay illegally? None of that is examined, because they are not humanized - no, they broke the law, they are "illegal", they are not worthy of our empathy.
I hate this shit.
Finally, the third paragraph. Omar absolutely does not apply the standard selectively. This goes back to my previous reply. Destiny and this fan have completely confused (I'd say deliberately) immigration and settler colonialism (see that whole reply) and use it to push this narrative. They are the ones using this false dichotomy to push this agenda of equating a violent, state-led and capitalist-backed project of settler-colonialism to intensely human desire of desperate people, seeking a better, safer life for themselves and their families, often due to America and its cronies.
Final point, it's not about fucking optics. Jesus christ. It's about human beings, not internet debates.
edit:
Well, thank you for trying I guess. If you wanna keep it up, you can try "immigrants aren't the same as settlers backed by a violent settler colonial state - the state is illegal; humans are not." but I doubt that would work.
The logic I'm trying to use is that the state, in this case, Israel, but in the past, America, Canada and other settler colonial states, are illegal in their attempts to colonize, displace, and genocide the native populations of the land (whether the laws of the time reflect that or not - even then, Israel's West Bank settlements are still illegal). And morally, there is a difference between "illegal immigrants" crossing borders made by these settler colonial states vs. these settlers taking over indigenous land with the backing of a violent state apparatus.
Like, Omar's statement, "no humans are illegal" can even apply to the Israelis in the West Bank provided there is no backing (no state/private funding, no military/police protection) of those settlers and it isn't accompanied by the simultaneous denial of that statement (no humans are illegal i.e. worth living, protecting) to the Palestinians living in West Bank. This is clearly not the case. There is a double standard here, i.e. apartheid. That's why comparing West Bank settlements to immigrant in the US or other countries is a false dichotomy.
god I love motte-and-bailey arguments they're so fun to talk around
7 word tweet with paragraphs of response attempting to contextualize
edit:
Yeah, the person you're replying to is just wrong.
Firstly, we're talking specifically about West Bank settlements. No point shifting the discussion into the whole of Israel (where they are also wrong - it is a settler colonial project. There is no debate to be had about that. There can be a debate about what to do with the people living there currently, but not with the fact that it is one).
Destiny and Omar have a disagreement on human's "being illegal". This is preposterous. One of the primary objections decent people have to the framing is that fact that humans aren't illegal. We aren't fucking property. We are sentient, living, breathing, self-conscious creatures. Calling humans illegals is dehumanizing, no different from any other term used in our recent past. Everyone knows illegal immigration occurs, and many liberals like to say they want to increase legal immigration and make it easier to attain citizenship. That's a separate fucking topic - the people who come in legally are richer, more well educated, tend to be from whiter and model minority communities (and I'm not even getting into the intra-Asian racism and schisms here - look into the difference between which Asian people tend to actually be "model minorities" and which do not, i.e. who actually earn high incomes, immigrate legally etc. and who do not).
The fact that Destiny and this fan of his use the term so willingly is proof that they do not consider immigrants as fully humans, they refuse to fully empathize with them - and this proven by the statement "illegal immigration shouldn't be happening". This statement is just thrown in there with no explanation, no justification, just assuming people will agree with it. No. Why should "illegal immigration" not be happening? What's wrong with it? Who are these people? Why are they immigrating? What forces them to come in illegally? What forces them to stay illegally? None of that is examined, because they are not humanized - no, they broke the law, they are "illegal", they are not worthy of our empathy.
I hate this shit.
Finally, the third paragraph. Omar absolutely does not apply the standard selectively. This goes back to my previous reply. Destiny and this fan have completely confused (I'd say deliberately) immigration and settler colonialism (see that whole reply) and use it to push this narrative. They are the ones using this false dichotomy to push this agenda of equating a violent, state-led and capitalist-backed project of settler-colonialism to intensely human desire of desperate people, seeking a better, safer life for themselves and their families, often due to America and its cronies.
Final point, it's not about fucking optics. Jesus christ. It's about human beings, not internet debates.