In my continued exposure to leftist spaces and a leftist view on history it has become clear that all I understand about Stalin is the reactionary rhetoric I've been fed my whole life. I have only just started on reading theory and exposing myself to a leftist view, so Stalin as a topic isn't something I've reached yet.
But I have to ask, and I think this is the place to ask it, what is the deal with Stalin?
The vibe I get is that people at a minimum don't hate Stalin, but also maybe at most appricate Stalin. I'm aware that the efforts of the USSR during WW2, especially in regards to Nazi aggression are a credit to his administration and leadership, but is that really where the vibe starts and stops?
I'm not looking for a dissertation on the guy, but just the notes or primary points. I'll take reading suggestions too.
Thanks comrades.
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how does it feel to be the only person whose ancestors were killed by stalin for being jewish
I enjoy when people try to re-write history. There is a lot written about this. Perhaps turn off the computer and go to a library and educate your mind instead of being ignorant.
who did he kill for being jewish
https://prolespod.libsyn.com/episode-31-stalin-was-a-mensch-a-look-at-the-antisemitism-of-the-ussr
Go read some Draitser and Kostyrchenko.
Not going through this charade. If you’ve read them, then you can cite specific evidence.
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But he's literally asking your help to not remain ignorant and close-minded?
If you have selections or evidence from the readings then sharing them would help all of us learn from each other. Can you please share some?
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I hear you, man. There are a lot of people here who admire Stalin and react to critiques of him or USSR, I know I'm personally more appreciative of Stalin and USSR than I am rejecting him or USSR myself but they weren't perfect and had their flaws. It's really because we are always surrounded by, and grew up with, propaganda uncritically vilifying both Stalin and USSR and people get tired of hearing it all the time.
My girlfriend is a post-Soviet Russian and her family got moved around a couple of times under Stalin so they're not too happy about him, and one side hid their Jewishness probably due to prejudice/antisemitism that they faced—so it's clear some existed for them to hide it but it certainly wasn't to the point of avoiding imprisonment or extermination. She's still a Communist for what it's worth and they had a decent life in Soviet Union but she kinda takes the mainstream line on Stalin—that's all I'll say about that because it's caused friction with us before. Haha Anyway, opinions on Stalin range and I'm open to hearing about yours. People here usually very openly share evidence and sources for their claims to combat the decades of Western propaganda that's made us uncritically reject Stalin/USSR so that's why people are asking for yours.
I can appreciate you shared some personal information already but if you can also please share the evidence you alluded to reading then it would at least help me understand where you're coming from better. We also don't always have the luxury of reading every book and heavily researching all subjects so sharing like this is a form of collective education. So can you please share some of what you've researched?
I don't think it was unreasonable to ask, given the number of descendants of Nazi collaborators that have embarrassed themselves making similar claims while leaving out their family history. If the case of your own family did include innocent victims of the purges/ethnic cleansings, that's a tragic reminder that socialism doesn't have a spotless history and we need to work to do better in the future.
Some of my family went from Auschwitz to work camps.
one really obvious thing would make it ok is if they were in fact not actually innocent.
if they were hoarding food or something would you have been told about that?
So for you someone's life is worth a "bag of food" I'm not sure what you're saying here? There was no food and the hardship was great for a lot of people.
I live through some of it. I'm in my 60s. I didn't live through Stalin but the times after him weren't that great either. I lived in Ukraine and Poland.
where the fuck did you get that from?
That's why I'm asking for clarification. Because you damn well better believe that I'd do everything in my power to make sure my family is not starving and if someone came and murdered my family for doing that, that's fucking cold blooded.
hoarding isn't a solution to shortage, it creates shortage ya kulak
That's a question I'd direct to your ancestors if they were hoarding food during a famine to price-gouge the poorer peasantry.
Of course, that's just one possibility, but we know people were killed for that reason and we don't have even the slightest evidence people were killed by the CC for "being Jewish" during that period, so if you can't produce any better historical evidence, the default is probably that they were twisting the knife on famine victims and don't need tears shed for them.
No they were poor miners and factory workers.
Then the question comes back to what they were actually charged with.
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Hold on, I thought they were forced to do prison labor because they were Jewish, not for “Bourgeois nationalism.” Granted there was no charge for being Jewish in the USSR, then again where does this certainty come from?
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“Read up on that” like you actually wrote anything worthwhile. I haven’t seen any real evidence that “bourgeois nationalism” is as a rule a cover charge, especially since it is a real thing?
I'm honestly not trying to be disrespectful to your family members, especially if they managed to miraculously survive Auschwitz, but have you honestly considered and acknowledged to yourself that maybe they were detained for being anti-communist pro-bourgeois
capitalistsreactionaries?I'm not saying it's impossible for some forms of antisemitism to exist in USSR, it wasn't perfect nor was it populated by perfect people, but there wasn't an antisemitic genocide there like in Nazi Germany and this kinda sounds like it was actually about something else entirely.
Apparently some were sentenced to forced prison labor despite not even being accused of anything specific, much less charged (can't find any cases of this)? The liquidation of Jewish people from positions of authority is one thing to accuse the USSR of (despite numerous examples showing this was not done across the board), but the idea that ordinary people ("poor miners and factory workers") were sent to do compulsory labor for being Jewish/Ukrainian is even more strange considering how poorly this alleged goal was carried out.