why would you undermine socialist organizers in paizo by using wizards of the coast, the corporate devil of the tabletop world?

  • silent_water [she/her]
    ·
    2 years ago

    what if I just dislike d&d-likes after realizing that wargaming is literally the most boring part of role-playing? lemme play a system that prioritizes story-telling and characterization instead. pathfinder 2e and d&d 5e both just feel like they took a fun and interesting part of the game away (mechanical character building) and replaced it with a bunch of stuff that all winds up feeling the same no matter what you actually do with your character. roll for initiative

    • ElGosso [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Counterpoint - big number is more gooder :theory-gary:

    • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
      ·
      2 years ago

      lemme play a system that prioritizes story-telling and characterization instead

      You don't really need a mechanical system to do that. You just need a DM and players that prioritize things other than combat in gameplay.

      Yeah, there are settings like World of Darkness that include a focus on social and political machinations. But put a bunch of wargamers at the table and your game of Vampire just becomes another D&D-with-Shotguns-In-The-Sewers. By contrast, if you put a bunch of drama-nerd LARPers in your D&D campaign, they'll all show up playing spoony bards.

      • barrbaric [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        RPGs have a specific way they are designed to be played, and for (modern) D&D games, that is to get into a certain amount of "encounters" per day, and going by how much of the pagecount is given to the combat part of the game, it's clear that fighting is supposed to be the primary mode of conflict resolution.

        Other systems that don't make combat any more mechanically complex or involved than other methods of conflict resolution (IIRC Fate and PBTA games do this) are generally going to be better for a group that wants to roleplay, because you won't be working against the system itself. I'm not saying you can't have fun just solving things with freeform RP using D&D, but in that scenario, D&D itself won't be contributing anything to the fun you're having.

        • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
          ·
          2 years ago

          going by how much of the pagecount is given to the combat part of the game, it’s clear that fighting is supposed to be the primary mode of conflict resolution.

          Combat tends to be rules-intensive, while social encounters are more abstract and DM/player driven. But there are plenty of pages in the rulebook dedicated to non-combat skills and powers. And I've played (and DM'd) games that are combat-lite. d20 systems work just fine.

          Fighting is only the primary means of conflict resolution when the scenario is combat-focused. Survivalist, diplomacy-driven, and mystery/puzzler games tend to reserve combat as the consequences for initial failure rather than the first course of action.

          I’m not saying you can’t have fun just solving things with freeform RP using D&D, but in that scenario, D&D itself won’t be contributing anything to the fun you’re having.

          I played a Sherlock Holmes style murder mystery in which combat lasted a sum total of eight rounds for the full six hour session. The skill suit and class powers in D&D/PF gives you a wealth of non-combat gameplay mechanics, assuming you build with that style of play in mind.

      • silent_water [she/her]
        ·
        2 years ago

        sure but at that point why call it d&d? what does the system bring to the table? other systems encourage players who are just playing for mechanical advantage to do so by engaging with the story telling instead of on whacking gelatinous cubes with pointy sticks.

        • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
          ·
          2 years ago

          sure but at that point why call it d&d?

          Because that's the name of the game that you're playing?

          other systems encourage players who are just playing for mechanical advantage to do so by engaging with the story telling

          Sure. But I've found the best storytelling happens among players who are just looking to tell a good story.

          That tends to come less from a particular system than from experience playing ttrpgs generally speaking.

            • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
              ·
              2 years ago

              look up PbtA and Savage Worlds. They’re talking about entirely new game systems.

              I've played a variety of systems, including Alternity and GURPS and Megaversal and World of Darkness and FATE. I'm not arguing that d20 is the definitive system.

              they’re arguing for equally good game systems made by independent developers which are also roleplaying games, but they encourage different playstyles

              In my experience, the thing that encourages the playstyle is the setting far more than the game mechanics. Using the WoD framework - Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage all run on the same fundamental system. But Vampire is inherently a political game. Werewolf is heavily tilted towards raw physical combat. Mage can't help but wobble between mystery/thriller and long debate about metaphysics. They're all built on the same core framework. Even then, you can absolutely play a Gunslinger Mage or an Eldrich Researcher Werewolf, if that's the game you're playing in.

              The thing that really draws people to Wizards of the Coast / Paizo tends to be the volume of players and the volume of content. Paizo, in particular, is really good about releasing new adventure modules annually. That's the grease a lot of tables need to get going.

    • NewAcctWhoDis [any]
      ·
      2 years ago

      I've heard really good things about Burning Wheel but I've never played it myself. It might be right up your alley.

      • silent_water [she/her]
        ·
        2 years ago

        I've never had the chance. haven't had a regular group to play with in years. I also really want to run FATE

    • Joker [none/use name]
      ·
      2 years ago

      What other alternatives are there? Battling in TTRPGs is horribly boring.