I don't have time to go through every source, but I'm familiar with the gray zone articles as people have posted them many times. The articles don't actually "debunk" anything, more so just attack some of the anti-China actors as having ulterior motives (which may be true) and the methodology of the numbers in the camp. But, there isn't anything that disapproves the concentration camps. In the end, they just resort to dismissing Uyghurs as terrorists (sounds like a similar strategy deployed right here at home).
On the other hand, China literally has admitted to having "re-education camps": https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/10/asia/xinjiang-china-reeducation-camps-intl/index.html
That's a huge admission, now you're smart enough to know that Uyghur's aren't just doing arts and crafts at the "re-education camps" filled with minorities who aren't free to come and go as they please.
I recommend following Gene A. Bunin's work at Xinjiang Victims Database (https://shahit.biz/eng/#home). Gene has done an incredible job tracking what is going on in Xinjiang. He's probably the best source in English.
Theres a pretty distinct difference here between these mainstream narratives that include 1 million+ Uyghurs in concentration camps, doing forced labor, having their organs harvested, getting sterilized, tortured, having their culture and religion made illegal, having their mosques destroyed, and being ethnically cleansed in a genocide and thereby saying China is modern day Nazi germany and a fascist imperialist dictatorship, vs being critical of their use of these camps. There's huge emissions here in what the history of the area is, what the scope of these camps have been, and what is actually happening in the larger context of this very clearly fabricated global campaign against China at the moment.
There have been over 1000 people killed in Xinjiang from 2007-2017 during the separatist conflicts. There have been multiple campaigns taken by China over the past years, which eventually culminated in the implementation of these camps in order to specifically address these conflicts. This is not an anti Muslim campaign (religion is practiced freely), its not an anti Uyghur campaign (culture is practiced freely), its specifically about Wahhabist influence in the region. Its not an "ethnic cleansing" campaign when the camps include actual housing, education, and job training as opposed to just concrete cells, and people are allowed to leave to visit family, and they dont often spend significant time in there.
I'm critical of these camps and what China is doing and I think its probably leading to indiscriminate arrests but i think this is an incredibly different criticism and reality than the current mainstream one. Calling China fascist is also fucking stupid.
There are thousands of documented testimonials by Uyghurs attesting to some of things you mentioned. I don't know why you are harping on what the US government or NGOs are saying. Listen to the Uygurs who survived. Bad faith actors will always try to exploit situations like this to push their agenda, that doesn't negate the facts in question.
Well, at least you're not denying the camps, just justifying them...so progress I guess.
Really farfetched to claim people can freely practice religion when China has actively spent decades openly surprising religion, as it doesn't align with the CCP politics.
President Xi Jinping: “We must resolutely guard against overseas infiltrations via religious means and prevent ideological infringement by extremists.”
Fascism is the forcible suppression of opposition and regimentation of society through authoritarian means e.g. placing people into camps to re-educate them into you pretend communist actual hyper-capitalist ideology.
There's also been a ton of evidence of fake testimonials and activists who have never stepped foot in China or just straight up dissidents being at the forefront of the testimonials. Would love the sources on everything said, this is turning into the same stupid shit it always does with you people. "Its far fetched to think people can openly practice region" jfc please learn about the fucking country you're talking about i beg you. I'm surprised you haven't said that Winnie the Pooh is banned from being displayed in China. Also please learn what words mean, China can't be describe as fascism this is so mind numbing.
You have no interest in any evidence that's contrary to your beliefs. Gene Bunin is a leftist academic that moved to China, speaks Mandarin, Uyghur, and Russian, and is personally interviewing Uyhurs and documenting their claims. But feel free to just dismiss everything, because fake testimonials exist.
China is literally grabbing people off the streets and putting them into "re-education camps" which the Chinese government openly admits to existing and is forcing people to believe only the official government text. Literally the textbook definition of fascism. It can not get any clearer than this. I don't know what else to tell you. If you don't think this is fascism, then are you cool with US police grabbing and disappearing BLM protestors?
I don't know why I have to explain this, but if you get disappeared off the street and placed into a government re-education camp and brainwashed because they don't like the way you are practicing your religion than you can't openly your practice your region. Can't believe I have to explain that.
feel free to post and I'll read
There's so much...
I don't have time to go through every source, but I'm familiar with the gray zone articles as people have posted them many times. The articles don't actually "debunk" anything, more so just attack some of the anti-China actors as having ulterior motives (which may be true) and the methodology of the numbers in the camp. But, there isn't anything that disapproves the concentration camps. In the end, they just resort to dismissing Uyghurs as terrorists (sounds like a similar strategy deployed right here at home).
On the other hand, China literally has admitted to having "re-education camps": https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/10/asia/xinjiang-china-reeducation-camps-intl/index.html
That's a huge admission, now you're smart enough to know that Uyghur's aren't just doing arts and crafts at the "re-education camps" filled with minorities who aren't free to come and go as they please.
I recommend following Gene A. Bunin's work at Xinjiang Victims Database (https://shahit.biz/eng/#home). Gene has done an incredible job tracking what is going on in Xinjiang. He's probably the best source in English.
So, that seems to have been a massive misrepresentation of what you actually planned to do. Y'ever gone through some of these sources?
Theres a pretty distinct difference here between these mainstream narratives that include 1 million+ Uyghurs in concentration camps, doing forced labor, having their organs harvested, getting sterilized, tortured, having their culture and religion made illegal, having their mosques destroyed, and being ethnically cleansed in a genocide and thereby saying China is modern day Nazi germany and a fascist imperialist dictatorship, vs being critical of their use of these camps. There's huge emissions here in what the history of the area is, what the scope of these camps have been, and what is actually happening in the larger context of this very clearly fabricated global campaign against China at the moment.
There have been over 1000 people killed in Xinjiang from 2007-2017 during the separatist conflicts. There have been multiple campaigns taken by China over the past years, which eventually culminated in the implementation of these camps in order to specifically address these conflicts. This is not an anti Muslim campaign (religion is practiced freely), its not an anti Uyghur campaign (culture is practiced freely), its specifically about Wahhabist influence in the region. Its not an "ethnic cleansing" campaign when the camps include actual housing, education, and job training as opposed to just concrete cells, and people are allowed to leave to visit family, and they dont often spend significant time in there.
I'm critical of these camps and what China is doing and I think its probably leading to indiscriminate arrests but i think this is an incredibly different criticism and reality than the current mainstream one. Calling China fascist is also fucking stupid.
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/in-xinjiang-controversy-china-is-the-target-of-u-s-violence-against-muslims/
https://aboutchina.carrd.co/#xinjiang
I dont put much into these videos but this one by someone from China and this Russia report from Xinijang are worth watching too.
There are thousands of documented testimonials by Uyghurs attesting to some of things you mentioned. I don't know why you are harping on what the US government or NGOs are saying. Listen to the Uygurs who survived. Bad faith actors will always try to exploit situations like this to push their agenda, that doesn't negate the facts in question.
Well, at least you're not denying the camps, just justifying them...so progress I guess.
Really farfetched to claim people can freely practice religion when China has actively spent decades openly surprising religion, as it doesn't align with the CCP politics.
President Xi Jinping: “We must resolutely guard against overseas infiltrations via religious means and prevent ideological infringement by extremists.”
Fascism is the forcible suppression of opposition and regimentation of society through authoritarian means e.g. placing people into camps to re-educate them into you pretend communist actual hyper-capitalist ideology.
There's also been a ton of evidence of fake testimonials and activists who have never stepped foot in China or just straight up dissidents being at the forefront of the testimonials. Would love the sources on everything said, this is turning into the same stupid shit it always does with you people. "Its far fetched to think people can openly practice region" jfc please learn about the fucking country you're talking about i beg you. I'm surprised you haven't said that Winnie the Pooh is banned from being displayed in China. Also please learn what words mean, China can't be describe as fascism this is so mind numbing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgdXPH3Oeko
You have no interest in any evidence that's contrary to your beliefs. Gene Bunin is a leftist academic that moved to China, speaks Mandarin, Uyghur, and Russian, and is personally interviewing Uyhurs and documenting their claims. But feel free to just dismiss everything, because fake testimonials exist.
China is literally grabbing people off the streets and putting them into "re-education camps" which the Chinese government openly admits to existing and is forcing people to believe only the official government text. Literally the textbook definition of fascism. It can not get any clearer than this. I don't know what else to tell you. If you don't think this is fascism, then are you cool with US police grabbing and disappearing BLM protestors?
I don't know why I have to explain this, but if you get disappeared off the street and placed into a government re-education camp and brainwashed because they don't like the way you are practicing your religion than you can't openly your practice your region. Can't believe I have to explain that.