I never will understand why rightoids are allowed to be horny and not us.
Most of them are scared shitless that some supernatural entity is going to torture them forever for having a sex drive, and that's why call anything even remotely risque the funny d-word, yet it never seems to apply to them. Like they're allowed to be perverse as a "reward" for conforming so well.
I find it very strange that some leftists will defend sex work and pornography, with all the implications around human trafficking, consent, exploitation, etc., and then also condemn M rated games for having protagonists who are sexualized.
Huh, that is a very strange combination of opinion that I havent personally encountered before. Ive run into basically every other combo of takes on sex work and sexualization but not that one lol.
In short, I think both should be legal. In regards to sexwork and porn, its mostly because it will happen regardless, might as well make it as safe as possible for the people at risk.
But like, I'd still generally condemn someone for regularly purchasing sex, just as I would to someone who only plays coombrained games (not that those two things are 'equivalently bad' mind).
People should be allowed to make, and consume, bad media, and also people should be allowed to dunk on them for liking bad media.
In short, I think both should be legal. In regards to sexwork and porn, its mostly because it will happen regardless, might as well make it as safe as possible for the people at risk.
I think we can do better than that. Don't legalize it, decriminalize it and then offer women who are stuck in those situations help so they can get out.
No one wants to put themselves at the forefront of some of the worst male (and state) violence for mere dollars, they do it bc they have no choice.
The solution should always be to help women escape those situations, not make those situations legal.
As for porn, that whole industry is just sex slavery with a mask on it. I'm not denying the existence of "ethical porn" but the facts state that the whole industry is caustic with abuse, trafficking, and rape.
I generally agree. I'm condensing a lot of policy into a sentence. Its also complicated, due to the interplay of capital in the mix; all of us are generally selling our bodies for money one way or the other. Not that all work is equally harmful obviously, or equally 'work'. There's a lot of 'job' that are 95%+ bullshit, and sexwork is one of those; it doesn't need to be done, its only because of demand in the form of $ that it 'needs' to exist.
So there's the question of, 'what should be done right now, and what should be done in an ideal scenario. Because ideally, demand for a thing shouldn't make that thing exist. Powerful men A) shouldn't exist, and B) shouldn't be able to just 'demand' sex via throwing dollars at the problem.
But also, until this system is dismantled, there will be powerful men throwing money around to get sex, and there will be women who want that money badly enough to accept it. I don't think there's any policy that can make that not happen, so decriminalizing it to make it safe, to help the women, is the obvious short term play.
, just as I would to someone who only plays coombrained games
I don't think the vast majority of games that have sexualized characters in them deserve to be written off as only being coombrained. They might deserve to be criticized for that one specific thing, depending on context and such. (Im not someone who thinks that sexy characters are inherently bad, and also think there's a distinction between sexy and objectifying). But the vast majority of those games have some sort of artistic merit besides the sexy girls. Whether it be gameplay or narrative or what. Even Stellar Blade, which I personally despise the vibes of deeply, apparently is pretty fun to play based on the demo.
Like even the later DOA Volleyball games are fun volleyball games lol (not the original one, but they got better) from what i hear.
So like unless its explicitly a hentai game or something that's purpose is literally jerking off, I think there's almost always merit outside the sex. (and if it is just a hentai game, well hentai is a significantly more ethical way of jerking off than consuming porn that uses actual actors so?)
I realize what you said was if the person's entire list of games are horny games thats condemnable so thats not really what you were saying, but its a point I wanted to make. I would disagree with the word condemn personally anyway, and use the word mock instead lmao, "condemn" has a weight to it that I dont think that deserves.
But regardless, I think the vast majority of games with sexy horny are doing it just for sales. I feel like there's only rarely merit to it beyond titillation, and it just feels like empty glitter. Does that mean these games have nothing besides sex to offer? No, there's games I've liked where I've had to roll my eyes at much of the visuals. But that's not going to stop me from dunking on the visuals. Because Yoko Taro is unabashedly horny on main, and while I don't think the design of 2b is good, I think his design work on Kainé is far worse. From what I've heard, her story is 'good', but the outfit, Yoko's comments about her penis, and the 'achievement' you get for trying to look up her skirt are all deeply disgusting to me.
Personally I think 2b's default outfit (not the one in the screenshot) is a good character design honestly. And honestly from a front view isn't even that overtly sexual? Its only because you can look up the skirt at her butt that it becomes that. Kaine though I agree lmao she's literally wearing lingerie* and yeah the achievement and stuff are gross. (*Though so is A2 and I like that design a bit more, idk it doesnt seem quiet as obnoxious with her, but maybe im excusing shit because i personally am highly attracted to A2 like more than the others.). Like the horny monkey brain part of me finds Kaine hot but the design is not good from that perspective.
Re "they're just there to sell games", I would point out that I think horny people will still make games with sexy characters in them under socialism lol. Like you even say Yoko Taro is a very horny brained person. I think he's doing horny shit in his games because he likes it. And I think his games would still be horny under socialism.
Obviously sometimes its to sell games. DOA Extreme is obviously that lol. I just wanted to point out that horny doesnt go away with profit motive gone.
You shouldn't be horny for sexist portrayals of women
I think this kind of completely disregards the existence of subjectivity? Different portrayals of women in games are going to come across differently to different players, women included. I know you find this baffling, but some women find Bayo empowering, for example. Others find her sexist and degrading. It depends on the person.
It also takes away the ability for a person to say "I know this author's intention is sexist objectifying, but I'm choosing to reclaim the character anyway." Which is like... a thing. Particularly for queer women (I feel that cis men like myself [well... to be determined lol] have less license [if any] to do so, and when and if I do so its only because I'm taking my lead from wlw friends).
Also tbh I think its naive to say that a person with a libido and an attraction to women is just going to be completely immune to an intentionally sexy portrayal of a woman. Of course there's going to be a base monkey brain instinct underneath any higher order thinking criticism. There have been many lesbian memes about the subject! I've always found this idea that people's higher order critical thought can override base attraction completely silly and unrealistic. Like maybe it can for you, I have to assume it can for you (or you're asexual) if you'r saying stuff like this. But for many of us it simply doesnt work that way.
I think this kind of completely disregards the existence of subjectivity? Different portrayals of women in games are going to come across differently to different players, women included. I know you find this baffling, but some women find Bayo empowering, for example. Others find her sexist and degrading. It depends on the person.
I remember watching a stream of MGS V from Stefanie Joosten (the model behind Quiet). Her friend was also on there and she complained about how sexist her character is designed, but Joosten dismissed it and said she enjoys the design and thinks it’s cool lol
That kind of attitude is why i only go to lesbian bars or places with an awareness team that will kick horny creeps out and never allow them into the venue again.
Like, seriously, your argument is literally "don't be horny about pixels, you can be gross around actual, living women instead, they're fair game for being objectified when they wear anything that isn't a high-cut t-shirt."
I never will understand why rightoids are allowed to be horny and not us.
Most of them are scared shitless that some supernatural entity is going to torture them forever for having a sex drive, and that's why call anything even remotely risque the funny d-word, yet it never seems to apply to them. Like they're allowed to be perverse as a "reward" for conforming so well.
I find it very strange that some leftists will defend sex work and pornography, with all the implications around human trafficking, consent, exploitation, etc., and then also condemn M rated games for having protagonists who are sexualized.
Are those the same people? I dont think those are usually the same people.
Sometimes they are. I knew one guy irl who was like that. Really weird.
Huh, that is a very strange combination of opinion that I havent personally encountered before. Ive run into basically every other combo of takes on sex work and sexualization but not that one lol.
I've seen many western leftists (usually anarchists) share that combo.
I mean, I'm more or less like that.
In short, I think both should be legal. In regards to sexwork and porn, its mostly because it will happen regardless, might as well make it as safe as possible for the people at risk.
But like, I'd still generally condemn someone for regularly purchasing sex, just as I would to someone who only plays coombrained games (not that those two things are 'equivalently bad' mind).
People should be allowed to make, and consume, bad media, and also people should be allowed to dunk on them for liking bad media.
I think we can do better than that. Don't legalize it, decriminalize it and then offer women who are stuck in those situations help so they can get out.
No one wants to put themselves at the forefront of some of the worst male (and state) violence for mere dollars, they do it bc they have no choice.
The solution should always be to help women escape those situations, not make those situations legal.
As for porn, that whole industry is just sex slavery with a mask on it. I'm not denying the existence of "ethical porn" but the facts state that the whole industry is caustic with abuse, trafficking, and rape.
I generally agree. I'm condensing a lot of policy into a sentence. Its also complicated, due to the interplay of capital in the mix; all of us are generally selling our bodies for money one way or the other. Not that all work is equally harmful obviously, or equally 'work'. There's a lot of 'job' that are 95%+ bullshit, and sexwork is one of those; it doesn't need to be done, its only because of demand in the form of $ that it 'needs' to exist.
So there's the question of, 'what should be done right now, and what should be done in an ideal scenario. Because ideally, demand for a thing shouldn't make that thing exist. Powerful men A) shouldn't exist, and B) shouldn't be able to just 'demand' sex via throwing dollars at the problem.
But also, until this system is dismantled, there will be powerful men throwing money around to get sex, and there will be women who want that money badly enough to accept it. I don't think there's any policy that can make that not happen, so decriminalizing it to make it safe, to help the women, is the obvious short term play.
Yeah I agree with your take, we're more or less on the same page.
I don't think the vast majority of games that have sexualized characters in them deserve to be written off as only being coombrained. They might deserve to be criticized for that one specific thing, depending on context and such. (Im not someone who thinks that sexy characters are inherently bad, and also think there's a distinction between sexy and objectifying). But the vast majority of those games have some sort of artistic merit besides the sexy girls. Whether it be gameplay or narrative or what. Even Stellar Blade, which I personally despise the vibes of deeply, apparently is pretty fun to play based on the demo.
Like even the later DOA Volleyball games are fun volleyball games lol (not the original one, but they got better) from what i hear.
So like unless its explicitly a hentai game or something that's purpose is literally jerking off, I think there's almost always merit outside the sex. (and if it is just a hentai game, well hentai is a significantly more ethical way of jerking off than consuming porn that uses actual actors so?)
I realize what you said was if the person's entire list of games are horny games thats condemnable so thats not really what you were saying, but its a point I wanted to make. I would disagree with the word condemn personally anyway, and use the word mock instead lmao, "condemn" has a weight to it that I dont think that deserves.
You right, 'mock' is much more what I meant.
But regardless, I think the vast majority of games with sexy horny are doing it just for sales. I feel like there's only rarely merit to it beyond titillation, and it just feels like empty glitter. Does that mean these games have nothing besides sex to offer? No, there's games I've liked where I've had to roll my eyes at much of the visuals. But that's not going to stop me from dunking on the visuals. Because Yoko Taro is unabashedly horny on main, and while I don't think the design of 2b is good, I think his design work on Kainé is far worse. From what I've heard, her story is 'good', but the outfit, Yoko's comments about her penis, and the 'achievement' you get for trying to look up her skirt are all deeply disgusting to me.
Honestly, I think a lot of it was historically simply the devs' own unexamined horniness
Personally I think 2b's default outfit (not the one in the screenshot) is a good character design honestly. And honestly from a front view isn't even that overtly sexual? Its only because you can look up the skirt at her butt that it becomes that. Kaine though I agree lmao she's literally wearing lingerie* and yeah the achievement and stuff are gross. (*Though so is A2 and I like that design a bit more, idk it doesnt seem quiet as obnoxious with her, but maybe im excusing shit because i personally am highly attracted to A2 like more than the others.). Like the horny monkey brain part of me finds Kaine hot but the design is not good from that perspective.
Re "they're just there to sell games", I would point out that I think horny people will still make games with sexy characters in them under socialism lol. Like you even say Yoko Taro is a very horny brained person. I think he's doing horny shit in his games because he likes it. And I think his games would still be horny under socialism.
Obviously sometimes its to sell games. DOA Extreme is obviously that lol. I just wanted to point out that horny doesnt go away with profit motive gone.
It’s the vibes man. Like cough it’s just bad dude
You shouldn't be horny for sexist portrayals of women, I think that's there's a lot more criticism on the left than the right.
Because the right doesn't care about sexism.
I think this kind of completely disregards the existence of subjectivity? Different portrayals of women in games are going to come across differently to different players, women included. I know you find this baffling, but some women find Bayo empowering, for example. Others find her sexist and degrading. It depends on the person.
It also takes away the ability for a person to say "I know this author's intention is sexist objectifying, but I'm choosing to reclaim the character anyway." Which is like... a thing. Particularly for queer women (I feel that cis men like myself [well... to be determined lol] have less license [if any] to do so, and when and if I do so its only because I'm taking my lead from wlw friends).
Also tbh I think its naive to say that a person with a libido and an attraction to women is just going to be completely immune to an intentionally sexy portrayal of a woman. Of course there's going to be a base monkey brain instinct underneath any higher order thinking criticism. There have been many lesbian memes about the subject! I've always found this idea that people's higher order critical thought can override base attraction completely silly and unrealistic. Like maybe it can for you, I have to assume it can for you (or you're asexual) if you'r saying stuff like this. But for many of us it simply doesnt work that way.
I remember watching a stream of MGS V from Stefanie Joosten (the model behind Quiet). Her friend was also on there and she complained about how sexist her character is designed, but Joosten dismissed it and said she enjoys the design and thinks it’s cool lol
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That kind of attitude is why i only go to lesbian bars or places with an awareness team that will kick horny creeps out and never allow them into the venue again.
Like, seriously, your argument is literally "don't be horny about pixels, you can be gross around actual, living women instead, they're fair game for being objectified when they wear anything that isn't a high-cut t-shirt."
Yeah uh if a dude is going to oogle woman id much rather they be fictional than women with feelings about it.