I’m not even American, so it doesn’t affect me directly, but I am scared to death of a Trump presidency.

I am one of those people here who think that Biden is a far more competent executor of imperialist policies compared to Trump, but what I am even more afraid of is the early death of nascent left wing movements in America.

I am reminded of how the KPD getting its leaders murdered by Freikorps thugs during the Spartacist uprising (mind you, a much stronger party than any leftist movement in America today), and how its continued suppression paved the way to Nazi Germany.

Project 2025 will effectively embolden fascist thugs in America to do the same to the left wing movements, many of which are still in their cradle, and the death of leftist movements in their infancies will inevitably pave the way to a fascist America and undo many of the progress that had been made over decades.

The world cannot afford a fascist America. Imagine Hitler with nukes. The world will have to pay a much, much larger price as a result.

On this reasoning alone, I believe that Trump needs to be stopped at all cost. But many here have disagreed with me, and I need you to persuade me why I shouldn’t be afraid of Project 2025 at all. Even if the chance of that happening is 10%, I’m still not ready to gamble with it.

(I’m not saying we have to support Biden, I believe it is somewhat inevitable, I’m saying that we have to buy ourselves as much time as possible, even if it means strategic voting, to build a resilient leftist movement while delaying the inevitable for as long as we can.)

    • Egon
      ·
      3 maanden geleden

      deleted by creator

    • idkmybffjoeysteel [he/him]
      ·
      8 maanden geleden

      Biden is probably the most left wing President since Carter. That's not saying much in a center right country, but that's where we are today.

      Jesus Christ. Also, center right? Relative to whom, Saudi Arabia?

      That's the American Left as it stands today. That's what we can pull on to drag the Overton Window's left edge farther open.

      My brother how in the hell do you think the Overton window shifted to the right in the first place? It was because of tepid endorsement of ever more right wing political parties, because at least they're not as bad as the other guy hyuck

      To the extent that thanks is owed to small dollar working and lower class people, to thousands of door knockers and surrogates, that power will be used to their benefit.

      I could understand believing this if you lived in Cuba or Vietnam or China but you have the evidence of your own experience and you are just choosing to ignore it for reasons, idk what they are, vibes?

      Although I'm guessing the next step on this stairway to purity is to complain that a vote for Biden is approval of everything the Democratic Party has ever done (and on and on) because the foundational motivation here is to feel superior without having to participate in real life politics.

      You know what, actually yes, hold people accountable for the crimes of the past, so that you don't just blindly believe them when they tell you things will be different now (and even when they don't)

      Maybe we can agree that a vote in our current system means "I approve of this alternative over the others."

      Excellent point, this is why you should still make limited use of the electoral system to vote third party

    • iie [they/them, he/him]
      ·
      8 maanden geleden

      a vote in our current system means "I approve of this alternative over the others"

      Almost, but not quite.

      What a vote actually means is "I prefer the result I expect from this vote over the result I expect from the other vote."

      If withholding your vote this time means they offer more next time, that's a result you might want. On the other hand, if you always vote blue as long as you slightly prefer the democrats, you give the democrats permission to move to the right, slightly behind the republicans, indefinitely.

      in practice, though, they'll always find some way to gin up votes without offering substance. that's their whole job. shrug-outta-hecks

      Political power is wielded by those who hold office, thanks to the people who got them into office. When that is a handful of billionaires and will connected political operatives, that power is used to their benefit. To the extent that thanks is owed to small dollar working and lower class people, to thousands of door knockers and surrogates, that power will be used to their benefit.

      This is not true in the slightest.

      Why would it be? The Democrats only need to be slightly less bad than the Republicans, and your vote is guaranteed.

      And it requires that we acknowledge that we approve of what the American Left has done more than the alternative.

      1. Democrats are not the American Left.

      2. What have the Democrats actually done?

      The policies of the Democratic party are bought by corporate interests. The material interests of a corporation run directly counter to those of a worker. Workers want higher wages, companies want lower. Workers want public healthcare, insurance companies want private. Workers want less war, the MIC wants more. Workers want lower housing costs, hedge funds and landlords want higher. Who do the Democrats side with? What direction is America headed in?

      Is this a democracy or a good-cop bad-cop routine?

    • Adkml [he/him]
      ·
      8 maanden geleden

      No, you can wrote as many paragraphs as you want to try to define how voting for somebody isn't supporting them but it's obvious bullshit.

      Maybe you can manage to convince yourself but "just because I used my vote to say this is my choice for who should be president doesn't mean I think they should be president" is going to continue to fall on its face here.

    • blashork [she/her]
      ·
      8 maanden geleden

      Political power is wielded by those who hold office

      Political power grows out the barrel of a gun. Aiming mine at you