This was inspired by a post I saw the other day.

In my city, there’s a fast food restaurant where people regularly use the drive through, park in a nearby neighborhood to eat, and when they’re done just toss their trash out the window.

What’s to be done about this in an ideal world? My initial thought is that “police” should stake it out and hand out littering tickets to those doing this.

Of course, these police would be unarmed, properly trained in deescalation, and maybe not even part of a greater police department (supposing such department even exists).

But I’m worried that this is just a super lib response, and wondering what your thoughts are. I’m a bit troubled by handing out these fines - these are potentially hundreds of dollars to people who can’t afford it. And an alternative sentence of community service to clean up trash, while there seems to be a sense of proportionate justice to it, is of course forced labor and would be unconstitutional under the 13th amendment but for that exception that people on this website love to quote and dunk on. Moreover, this is a deterrence-based approach which opens its own can of worms.

    • innocentlurker [he/him]
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      edit-2
      2 years ago

      So great start

      As a boomer who realized I was left (and that I disn't understand why I hated libs as much as I did conservatives) only after supporting Bernie in 2016, I appreciate the encouragement. God knows I didn't get any in the McCarthy=>Regan era so better late than never. Just happy to be here. :hexbear-retro:

        • innocentlurker [he/him]
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          2 years ago

          I sympathise on the parents score.

          Mine were born in the 30's so their childhood was spent absorbing WW2 propaganda like reddit does Iraq war or Hong Kong or Russia propaganda. When they came of age the war was over, but they were so bamboozled that the Korean war was their chance to be Americans or whatever and the McCarthy shit embedded in their brains makes them rage to this day if you mention socialism or communism.

          I've given up but I forgive them because I learned to see the brainwashing and I just slide around it and direct what conversations I have with them to family stuff. That and I moved a state away so I could think for myself without abuse.

          The boomers I grew up with were mostly shoulder shrug libs, the chuds whose parents were rich or local business owners and officials and a handful of outcasts (whether willingly or unwillingly). There were a few leftists in the outcast class and a few in the arts groups. But the hard sciences and athletes and shop geeks were all chuds. Mostly products of their families TBH.

          So when people look at boomers and see the mainstream propaganda picture of "hippies", it would be wise to remember that every generation is created by the system we live in still. Reddit is proof that nothing much has changed as far as American culture. I see hippies as the primal keening of the cultural left as it was systematically destroyed, a last hurrah. Life went on.

          The only difference I see now is that material conditions are getting bad enough to warrant thinking a thought, unless the TV got there first and then it's pretty sad. I've said since before the second Bush that this country needs to hit rock bottom before anything gets better.

          Thinking is the answer in my opinion. Get someone to think, even a little. I have a Trump supporting neighbor and he swaggered up to me last summer and we lamented over the current problems. He wanted to tell me about "Conservative values" and I looked him right in the eye and said "You mean American values?" and he hasn't spoken to me about politics since. The contradictions inherent in distancing himself from his nationalism or from his tribalism left his brain sparking. Lucky head shot I guess.

          And let this be a lesson that you should never engage with anyone near or over 60 as they start going on and on forever and won't shut up. :)

          I wonder if I will know if I become demented and continue to pollute the forums with nonsense and not knowing it is? I hope not.