I mean my god they seem absolutely committed to driving us all off a cliff to hang on to their already-collapsing hegemony. Is there literally anything short of getting their teeth kicked in by a nuclear launch that could convince the leaders of "the free world" to once, just fucking once, willingly take the L?

I don't want to die in the opening cutscene of a Fallout game because whoever the hell is in charge of Germany these days decided to get into a pissing match with fucking Putin of all people.

  • booooop [any]
    ·
    edit-2
    2 years ago

    Honestly I don’t understand these takes, I don’t comment a lot but why is Russia and her population not targeted to stop their imperialist leader. Fuck the US and EU but fuck Putin and his cronies too. But any war is terrible and whoever starts that shit is the most terrible

    edit:Targeted meaning in targeted by these types of posts, not killing or hurting them

    • Bluegrass_Buddhist [none/use name]
      hexagon
      ·
      2 years ago

      This isn't a pro-Putin post, it's a "please European and US leaders actually engage in rational geopolitics for once instead of playing nuclear chicken with a cornered and increasingly-desperate regional power" post.

      • Heifer [none/use name]
        ·
        2 years ago

        If Putin is going to behave like a child then we have the right to behave like a child in return

        destroys the world :xok:

      • booooop [any]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Fair enough, I didn’t read it like that. Thanks

    • Fartbutt420 [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Fuck Putin but if you think this war is about Russian "imperialism," or that regime change and the collapse and subsequent looting of the Russian state is a good thing, then I suggest lurking more.

      • booooop [any]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Of course not, just that there is more than the nato aggression at play here and Russians are the only people who could take action in the part their government is playing. Anti war protests and sabotage should not be limited to EU/US

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      why is Russia and her population not targeted to stop their imperialist leader.

      Putin has been seeking a diplomatic resolution to this problem almost since he seized power in 2000. Every attempt at diplomacy by the Russians has been flatly rejected and NATO has continued to relentlessly encroach on the Russian border. Putin has made many, many attempts at diplomacy since the coup in 2014 and all of them, including the ones brokered by France, have been shut down hard by Ukraine and their masters in NATO.

      Russia can't stop this war because Russia didn't start the war. Pillaging and looting Russia has been a goal of the West since at least the formation of NATO in 1949. NATO, and by extension the US, are getting what they want. Russia is being weakened. Europe is facing total economic collapse that will make it even more of a helpless vassal of the US. So far the sanctions regime has only really hurt Europe, leaving Russia largely unscathed. Dedollarization is still in the works but Washington doesn't seem to care that much.

      And of course in this late-capitalist world where everything that can be stolen has been stolen and everything that can be exploited has been exploited, the only way left to turn a profit to to destroy massive amounts of capital through industrial warfare, so in addition to everything else Washington is getting an excuse to feed tremendous amounts of money in to the Military Industrial Complex.

      This was all planned out by NATO and the US decades ago. It's been their strategic goal probably since the USSR was dismantled. Every single diplomat and strategist active in the last thirty years was 100% aware that attempting to expand NATO in to Ukraine would, one way or another, lead to a direct conflict if not open warfare. Joe Biden literally said it himself.

      We're hear because NATO and the US want us to be here. Only NATO and the US can stop this. And they don't want to stop this.

    • redthebaron [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      like i will go over my reasoning here like the way i see it most of this situation is on nato, THEY KNEW that russia would not allow their ukrainian move, and they thought that they were enough of a deterent, and they were not and the whole region is paying for it, i think the whole war is dumb but if you have to end this war there will have to be concessions unless you really win it and the closer you get to really winning it on this situation, the closer you are to actual nukes going around which is an absolute loss, so it is fucked like we don't like putin, but like letting it escalate more and more and more is kinda of a dumb move, and i don't think the russian population has much control over any of this in the same way i don't think american population has like what they are gonna do, really?

      • booooop [any]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Who else though? Do we just pick a champion who will make these decisions that ends up causing a lot of suffering and then say: ‘I’m not him so not my fault’. You either are partially responsible for picking them, or for not getting rid of them when it turned sour

    • Awoo [she/her]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      and her population

      Should you be targeted for the actions of your government of which you have absolutely zero power to do anything about? What atrocities has your government performed in the past and in what way do you think you should be justifiably targeted for those atrocities? You have no power, you have no ability to do anything about what your bourgeoise government does. No amount of targeting you will change that. Right?

      Serious question, I'll engage with you in good-faith. Empathy is the basic starting point. Reverse the scenario and make yourself the target and I think you'll realise the problem. You aren't any different to any of the russian population.

      • booooop [any]
        ·
        2 years ago

        I think targeted was not the right word, but considering that the only people able to change their country in a positive way are the people who live there, work there and love there. If my country would do this shit I would vote (lol), protest and sabotage any war effort I don’t see myself different as anyone, but doing nothing because I have limited (if any) power means accepting this hell world and I won’t do that

        • Awoo [she/her]
          ·
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          This is a fundamental misunderstanding of bourgeoise democracy.

          The people have zero power in a bourgeoise democracy. The only people with power are the bourgeoisie and the only people that can change anything are the bourgeoisie. Short of a full blown revolution, which is absolutely not even feasible, that shit is just a vindictive attack against the people.

          If other countries in the world did that shit to your country the outcome would be that the people turtle, become massively hostile to the enemy countries attacking them, and blame them for all of their problems.

          This is all extremely un-marxist. Cuba, Venezuela and the DPRK are already extremely clear indications of what happens when you try to sanction a country into oblivion, it motivates the population against the enemy states performing the sanctions and all it does is harm the average person's living standards. Sanctions are evil. They are warfare targeted against the average person with every bit of evidence showing they do not work and only function to harm. The people recognise YOU as the asshole causing their pain and turn into "fuck you we'll survive this out of pure spite" mode.

          Anyway I personally find the fact that you want to harm proles for the actions of the bourgeoisie really sus. Those are us. Don't other your own class based on national borders.

          • booooop [any]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Thanks for explaining that! I used my words incorrectly, targeting in the sense of creating posts not harming anyone. That’s the main thing I don’t understand here: that violence seems to be ok as long as its leftists doing it, sure revolutions are bloody but a lot of Ukranians are innocent in this and these actions seem to motivate more hate for Russia/Communism

    • Nounverb [none/use name]
      ·
      2 years ago

      I understand you, but im not a pacifist. Some empires need to die. Sometimes you are the Karma that swings around. I don't have to like Russia, but I can respect that in this moment their nationalist objectives line up with the end of the anglo-american financial empire. Marx would have agreed considering his own position on the Franco-Prussian war which created Germany.

      The Ukranian people, if they win, will only set the global left back. Russia has to win and I'm not afraid to say it.

      • booooop [any]
        ·
        2 years ago

        I get that point, but I personally see only China’s way of furthering the global left as actually working. Russia’s aggression does nothing except feed the red scare bullshit

      • booooop [any]
        ·
        2 years ago

        lmao pacifist if anything you fucker, I don’t think they should be held responsible in nany physical meaning. But if there is power to stop killing it must come from the people, be it Russians or Europeans/Americans

        • Ligma_Male [comrade/them]
          ·
          2 years ago

          nah, way too many people defend sanctions for us to assume you didn't mean that. eat shit, backpedaler.

          schrodinger's douchebag lookin ass.

          • booooop [any]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Holy shit what the fuck is wrong with you? You can’t fucking understand I was talking about targets for these posts? Are you american or just ignorant about people having different concepts for the same words? Especially a second language.

            Why are you so bitter?

    • anoncpc [comrade/them]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Because her population except for few libs could see that the US and EU want to pillage whatever left of their country after pillaging the corpse of USSR, and turn most of former USSR state into Nazi? Not hard to see Russian support Putin over the west. You act like the 8 past years doesn't happen, and many Russian act happy happy with Ukraine?

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      but why is Russia and her population not targeted to stop

      If there's any takes I don't understand it's this kind right here, Russia has been targeted for thirty years, that's kinda of the whole problem

      Also, the war started in 2014 and as per the Minsk agreement it sure as shit wasn't Russia who started it

      Really getting sick of this mindless media generated 2003 Iraq war mindset "SadDam iS bAD gUy" where even basic facts don't penetrate western skulls, there are goddamn neocons in academia who know better, shit even liberal professors aren't all falling for it