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Thinking it might be time to go get one.
That said, I've only ever shot a gun once, and that was a handgun of some type, about 6+ years ago by this point. What would be a solid first, and most likely only, handgun? I'm not an enthusiast really, so this would be more of a thing "better to have and not need." Looking for something simple and reliable. What's out there, what should I be looking for? Thanks!
I think the best place to start is to ask what the budget is? $500 is a good ball park price and will get you a very nice, reliable gun. The second step is to basically just go to a gun store and try on some. See what catches your eye and see what fits your hand.
I'm partial to CZ. My next gun purchase is going to be a daily driver hand gun since I don't have one at the moment, but I've had my eyes on a P10c for over a year now.
Thanks! If $500 is recommended, I could maybe go 7 or 8 for something like this. That should give some wiggle room, no?
Remember to budget for ammo too. Need a certain amount of practice - maybe few hundred rounds minimum? - before gun will do you any good.
I think $700-$800 is a very realistic budget once you start adding in some ammo, a few extra mags, and good little safe or something to keep it in(this is a must if you don't live alone IMHO). I personally don't see much reason to spend much more than 5-600 on the gun itself. Even a good old fashioned G19 Glock is $500.
How's it compare to the HK P30 series? I don't know much about how to judge these things based on specs, but that one seems quite similar and much cheaper. My gun-knowledgeable friend recommended that one once when I mentioned I'd been thinking about getting a 9mm.
It's all purely anecdotal, but I think CZ makes very good guns. My husband has a 999, and one of my best friends has a P10c. My friend with the p10 uses it as his daily carry and his gun for for three gun competitions. They both swear by them. I can't say how it handles compared to the HK tho since I've never shot one of those p30s.
HK P30 has the same interchangeable grips panels as the VP9, which I ABSOLUTELY ADORE. When you find the right combination it will feel absolutely molded to your hand.
My partner hates it. The beaver tail is a little low and thick and it irritates their hand.
beaver tail
so this is the rear portion of the grip that fits into the center of the palm? looking at pics it does seem to be a bit bulging on the VP9 compared to the p30, but no idea how it would feel in hand while firing
guess these subtle differences are why folks recommend range time / rentals before you purchase
It's the part at the top of the back that nestles into the web between your thumb and index finger.
And, yeah, the subtle differences add up. I can't stand shooting an M&P or XD, they literally rub me the wrong way. P320, VP9, 1911, heavenly. My partner loves the feel of the CZ 75. Glocks have all the ergonomic feel and visual appeal of a brick, but I shoot them real good, so I still like them.
First: I will always preach that everyone should have a 10/22.
That out of the way, any of the big-name manufacturers' polymer striker-fired double-stack 9mm pistols is reliable and solid. Springfield XD, SW M&P, HK VP9, Sig P320 (just don't shoot yourself), Glock anything, CZ P10c.
Same can be said for the hammer-fired double stack nines. CZ 75, HK P30, Walther PPX, etc. Marginally more mechanically complicated, usually a slightly cleaner trigger.
Short of it, if it's modern, mostly plastic, if the manufacturer is reputable, and it holds 15-20 rounds of 9mm in the basic magazine, it's gonna be fine. Find the one that feels comfortable in your hand. I'd advocate for sigs and HK in that aspect, because of interchangeable grips/grip panels, you can make them feel good.
Don't buy a Taurus, they go boom when you shake them.
Ruger's semiauto rifle in 22lr. Holds between 10-25 rounds per magazine. Works. Is not expensive. Is not a scary black gun.
It is probably the easiest gun to become good with on the planet. You can find parts for them anywhere.
If I ever became an American politician somehow, I'd be running on free 10/22s for everyone.
If you have particularly odd sized hands might be worth going to a gun shop and trying the feel of various pistols but otherwise--- get a glock 19 with this slightly sneaky coupon workaround.
- Fill out web form at https://user.gssf.pro/register/go with payment info
- Wait for coupon card to mail and search https://us.glock.com/en/dealer-locator-usa
- Take coupon, drivers license and down payment to dealer and wait for background check to clear and they can ship the model there
- (Bonus step) compete in GSSF competition for practice
- Buy streamlight tlr1 or modlite weapon mounted light, safariland or phlster holster and red dot to be milled by jagerwerks or other reputable company: holosun 509 model recommended!
- Practice with more OEM or pmags and pick up federal HST or speer gold dot for carrying
Thanks! That sounds like a bit much and I don't think I'm ready to go ahead and do that, but I'll keep that in mind!
glock 19 is, all other things considered, the go to standard: weapon mounted light is very necessary if you have any intention of using it at night(half the time): Holster is necessary for anything other than keeping it hidden in the house: red dot is critical for acquisition of good set of basic skills and is worlds better than irons: practice practice practice is absolutely essential if you're even remotely considering buying a firearm : best of luck
What's your budget?
Also, are you planning on concealed carrying, or just using it for home defense?
No CC, just home defense. Let's say 800 budget, based on the other person's comment. Hope that helps!
I had to step away from the computer for a bit but it looks like you got some good info in the meantime.
I will say that it's hard to go wrong with any of the popular striker-fired 9mm handguns (Glock 17/19, CZs, Sig Sauers, M&P Shields, Springfields). A lot of it will come down to preference, but practicing with whatever you have is a bigger factor in my opinion. And if one model really doesn't suit you after a few hundred rounds, they usually maintain their resale value pretty well.
If you want a gun that is exceptionally easy to use (but it makes some key sacrifices for the ease of use), check out the M&P Shield EZ. 9mm is a better and cheaper round but it also comes in 380 if you really want to minimize recoil.
I will also say that a handgun isn't usually the best option for home defense, depending on your circumstances and needs. It takes much more practice to become proficient with a handgun than a rifle, PCC, or shotgun. So you might consider getting an AR-15 or shotgun first, if you don't already have one. There's decent AR-15s in the $500-800 range, or a Maverick 88 12-gauge is like $200.
The best HD gun, assuming all other things are equal, is an AR or a similar style of gun in a HVSC intermediate cartridge. Compared to that option, a shotgun is longer, heavier, harder to aim, has worse sights, worse recoil, worse capacity, lower reliability, is not drop safe, penetrates further through walls, is louder, is more likely to cause collateral damage via the 9th pellet flyer issue, and is more prone to user induced malfunction via short stroking. Which if you havent fired a shotgun under stress is definitely gonna happen.
Thanks for the input. Agree about ARs.
I've shot shotguns much longer than I have handguns (since I was a kid) so my experience may be different than people entirely new to guns. Would you personally recommend a handgun before a shotgun, then?
I feel like half of those issues can be solved by ammo selection. But I could be wrong. Also, shotguns seem more effective for community defense and potentially hunting than handguns (assuming an AR is out of budget or not an option).
I am fairly earnestly of the opinion that the AR is the superior home defense weapon in the states. That being said it also comes with the caveat of probably needing earmuffs or a suppressor in order to accurately function in home defense situation. an AR also due to its ease of use and broad effective range also ranks highly on community defense needs. Frankly if youre in the USA and wanna get into AR's dm me and I can help you find a good one/build a good one
I just think a shotgun is gonna require a lot more practice and also any load you have in the shotgun that wont penetrate drywall(I often see fudds recommend birdshot which is turbo illegal) wont penetrate a meat sack either so what are you really using the gun for anyway.
if youre shooting at someone, you are shooting to kill, full stop.
I think if you are really not gonna do anything else with the gun, then a glock 19, decent carry ammo, and oem glock mags is probably the absolute bare minimum for home defense, please at least watch some videos on how to practice dry fire though and get some in depth knowledge on your laws, what counts as self defense, what brandishing is and why you absolutely should not do it, etc etc
Hunting is its own ballgame and im not as familiar with that quite yet.
Yeah we're on the same page as far as ARs go. Really hard to beat the versatility, effectiveness, an usability of an AR.
Been a while since I looked up pen tests, and I don't have time right now since I'm at work, but iirc the right weight buckshot had similar or less penetration than other home defense rounds. But I may be misremembering. I'll check later today.
Mostly just a question of AR > Shotgun > Handgun or AR > Handgun > Shotgun, I guess.
It takes much more practice to become proficient with a handgun than a rifle, PCC, or shotgun. So you might consider getting an AR-15 or shotgun first
I would need to look up state laws, but....AK47? I feel like that might be too much. We're talking apartments here, in terms of home.
Definitely look up your state laws, especially if you're in a coastal or otherwise gun-hostile state. Key things to know are whether certain features are banned and whether there's a limit on magazine capacity. I believe a couple states even have a list of guns that are allowed, all others being restricted to law enforcement or something of the sort. Also good to know castle doctrine and other defense laws. There's usually sites that show up on a quick google search that will provide a good summary/chart of your state's laws. Could also check out your state gun subreddit (/r/CAguns, for example).
Any round capable of being used for home defense is going to go through multiple walls, whether that be 9mm, 223, or buckshot. Drywall is unfortunately just not good at stopping bullets. The best gun for home defense is the one you shoot the most accurately, which for most people is a rifle before a handgun. Additionally, 223 usually overpenetrates less than 9mm does. Whatever you get, never use FMJ/ball rounds for anything other than range training. Get some good hollow points or frangible rounds for defense.
And as much as I love AKs, there's no practical reason in the US to get one over an AR. Entry-level AKs that don't have reliability/safety issues start at $1k, whereas you can get a solid entry-level AR for $500.
Import laws have ruined the AK market now. AKs used to make sense when they were cheap but now you can get two AR-15s for the price of an AK, or an AR-10 for the price of an AK.
So you might consider getting an AR-15 or shotgun first, if you don’t already have one.
As they say, usually the sound of racking the shotgun is all you need for defense
Remember that dark brandon says it's cool to just fire a couple rounds of 00-buck into the air to scare folks off.
DO NOT ACTUALLY DO THIS!
are there any guns i can bring back and/or forth over the US-Canadian border, as I sort of live on both sides and would like to not just have dupes of everything.
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/iefw-iefa-eng.html IDK the laws for the states but this is Canada, need to fill out a form and pay a fee provided you have a PAL. Bit of a pain in the ass if you do it frequently. Any gun will work under the non restricted category (for restricted, you need an ATT which is a form the RCMP gives you for permission to transport restricted stuff like pistols). And I think you can't bring certain stuff into the US like Norinco weapons because of the ban. So for the least hassle just buy bolt action long guns and whatever semi autos fall under non restricted + not made by a banned manufacturer.
Anyone know anything about night vision optics and want to help a noob out?
I was looking at Armasight CO-LR PVS-14 gen 3 clip-ons for a long bolt-action with a March FX High Master 5-42x56mm scope, but apparently they're only good up to 12x zoom. The effective range on the rifle is ~3.25km, I reached out to an optics dealer but I'm just not sure if what I'm hoping to find exists for non-military use... Ideally up to 1km and >12x magnification would be :chefs-kiss:
I don't know anything about NVGs except that I can't afford them. I can not imagine how much a 12x NV scope would cost. Godspeed comrade! Make sure you post a pic of it if you find one. :fidel-salute:
ask nocturnality on instagram they are extremely helpful and the go to resource for this sort of stuff. They will also probably be able to set you up with a fair deal
Not particularly relevant to your request but
(CW: hunting)
I really, really, really want to get a thermal scope just to get a rise out of my fudd buddies who talk about how hard it is spotting and tracking deer.
I once used an 1891/30 to blow up enough tannerite that the neighbor vet had to come over and ask us to stop. :pavlichenko:
$520+FFL. Optics ready Springfield Hellcat Pro with 5 mags and range bag. Generally intended for CCW due to its small size. For non-CCW there are probably better options.
Reddit link for discussion, click through for deal
This is not an endorsement of this gun or dealer. I've heard good things about Hellcats but have no experience myself.
New crate of preserved 91/30s showed up in my local gun store, very tempted to go and get one, but I don't ever want to think about cosmoline ever again.
Always gotta recommend this to new gun owners:
M&P Shield EZ
Most pistols are seriously so difficult to operate if you aren't a healthy adult man, and even then - they can be such a hassle. That pistol has:
- A slide that is very easy to rack
- Safety and release levers that are easy to operate
- Magazines with little plastic tabs to PULL THE FOLLOWER DOWN AND SIMPLY PLACE ROUNDS INTO THE MAGAZINE INSTEAD OF DESTROYING YOUR THUMBS
It's seriously so much easier on the hands.
And it shoots great. It holds 7-8 rounds in a pretty compact frame, you can get it in 9mm and .38
I think I got mine for like 450 used.
I'll second this, it lives up to its name. I got the 380EZ as an easy-to-use gun I can lend to non-experienced people in a pinch.
Anyone considering it should keep in mind that it makes some sacrifices for its ease of use (particularly with the single stack mags, so it only holds 8 rounds instead of a more typical 12-15) and it isn't best in its class.
I'd generally only recommend this to people who have trouble racking the slide on other handguns, or have partners/friends that have trouble. Ease of use won't compensate for lack of training and there's better options for people who don't have trouble with other handguns.
The .380 version I've seen on sale as low as $250, now that prices have calmed down a bit. $350 on sale for the 9mm. 9mm is a better round, but for people who have tried it and still have trouble with the recoil, 380 is quite a bit softer.
:this:
My lady carries that gun in the woods, I carry a 17 round full size pistol
No. Best caliber. And I mean that literally. Shot placement matters more than anything else, and there's no better way to get good than sending rounds downrange. If you're paying 5 cents per round, you're gonna be able to practice a lot more per dollar than with any other caliber. Being good with a 10/22 is a lot more valuable than being crappy with a 9mm handgun.
Not at all. It's great for cheap range ammo.
Not recommended to rely on it for any form of defense, so it's usually best as a third caliber. That being said, it's perfectly capable of being lethal with good shot placement, and despite being rimfire there's supposedly good quality and reliable rounds out there nowadays. Works fine for small game hunting in a pinch.
Anybody fucked with the PSA AR-10s? I have a nice 10x scope I got on sale a while back that still doesn't have a home.
I just asked around to my friend group since I don't have any first had experience and this is what the consensus is: It will probably be over gassed and have cheap feeling fit and finish. But it will shoot. The recommendation is to save a bit and buy an aero one.
But again this is second hand info from my friends.
buy an aero one.
Thanks, this is what I feared. Oh well it's only money, guess I'll buy an aero upper and lower sometime soon.
That information is slightly biased since the friend that told me it has had a few PSA ar15s, and he currently has an aero AR-10(that absolutely slaps, it's my favorite gun to shoot).
