Annoyed by the critics that suddenly feel betrayed by the series because they had convinced themselves the games weren't sexist even when it couldn't have been more obvious. People tried to tell them Bayonetta was misogynist as fuck but they were dismissed as "sex-negative" or whatever.
It's...very weird looking at a thread that, from what I can tell, does not have any openly fem voices calling this character too sexualized and that it's bad for women without really ever having asked a woman, and in the process very steadily erasing our thoughts.
I don't know what to think when I hear 'she's too sexualized'. Are her breasts too big? Mine are bigger. They're not unrealistic, I assure you. She looks very nice, and I enjoyed playing as her.
It feels like indirect body shaming and it's telling that it always seems to be cis dudes demanding women cover up and getting angry when women are presented as attractive. There's a difference between overly sexual hentai shit and 'sexy and attractive'. Risque shit is fine and I don't know why prudism is forced onto women.
It also feels like america's sex negativity being laundered into leftism.
Women that criticized Bayonetta were harassed for not towing the line on misogynist nerd shit so they don't talk about the character or the series as much anymore.
Examples are out there if you look.
https://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/bayonetta-and-the-male-gaze/
https://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/on-bayonetta-2-and-female-sexuality-in-video-games-tw/
https://feministfrequency.com/video/bayonetta-innovative-advertising-or-sexual-harassment-training/
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/521778746655649792?lang=en
https://agameofme.tumblr.com/post/102909075862/bayonetta-2s-sexless-sexiness-and-the
Those that come to the defense of the character and series also ignore the obvious misogyny demonstrated by the creators. Bayonetta's only feminist or unproblematic if you buy into Naomi Wolfe's bullshit Fire with Fire feminism.
Thank you for telling a woman what to think choomfie I really appreciate it, I must have harassed all my woman friends into not disliking Bayonetta too
I'm not telling you what to think. There's no evidence that points to Bayonetta being anything but some guy's horny fantasy of what women should be but people can think what they want.
I think the point is that bayonneta can be a man's horny fantasy and also a woman's horny fantasy too and the existence of said horny fantasy isn't inherently misogynist (although statements like "i think all women should dress like her" absolutely are) and saying that it is is a slight on women who enjoy said horny fantasy as well as those who might physically or stylistically relate to Bayonetta's aesthetic
A woman having the same fantasy doesn't mean it can't be misogynist. That kind of defense only comes up when women are into something that was designed with men as the intended target audience.
These people didn't come to the defense of 50 shades of grey with the same argument. It was something everyone dunked on as sexist even though it was written for women by a woman.
We live in a misogynist culture so it isn't rare for us to have misogynist fantasies.
okay, well, I've just seen this user repeatedly express their frustration with the attitudes that it is wrong for a woman to enjoy or appreciate these things and construe it as a form of bodyshaming when they relate their own aesthetic to what's being criticized and I don't think they deserve to be browbeaten into believing they're just internalizing misogyny or whatever just because that's what you feel to be correct about it
I didn't say they women wrong to enjoy these things. I don't think we should pretend misogynist media is something it's not.
We all enjoy problematic things.
I mean saying a sexualized female character is inherently misogynistic is literally saying that women are wrong to enjoy that thing, it is an argument inherently framed that the woman enjoying those things is just naively enjoying a misogynist male fantasy and is stripped of her agency and ability to enjoy said thing, which is kind of fucked up when that thing is, to those women, related to "being sexual at all themselves"
and saying Bayonetta is a misogynist thing because this dev guy said misogynistic things isn't a really good argument
the things he said were misogynistic, the thing that was made with a small portion of his involvement (pretty sure like workers make things not just one dev guy btw) is not, especially not as a consequence of his saying or believing those things
"blah blah blah the artist's intention" the Fahrenheit 451 guy said the book was about how bad TV is
Sexualized depiction women are inherently misogynist because we live in a patriarchal society and sexualization is distinct from sexuality. Watch the lingerie is not armor video.
There are video games where women have nude sex scenes and they aren't sexualized and there are video games where women are clothed and doing something that has nothing to do with sex and are sexualized.
Saying women who enjoy misogynist things is not an attack on them. Something can be misogynist and we can have complex feelings about it. It doesn't mean we are being tricked or have no say in how we process it. In one of the links I posted, a woman said Bayonetta was misogynist and she also talked about what she liked about the game.
Your argument is essentially that if a woman enjoys a piece of media, it can't be sexist. That's a lib way of understanding things.
The workers made the character under his direction. His ideas shaped the character. He isn't a capitalist, he's an artist, and a worker himself.
This is your defense of Bayonetta:
She and the game can't be misogynist because there are women that like the character and games
The series creator, the director/writer (and another producer) of the game actually had little to do with its development (citation needed) so their misogynism regarding the development actually had no effect on the game. This also implies that all the other men that worked on the game weren't misogynist, which you somehow know.
Ignoring feminist critics that called Bayonetta misogynist.
That leads me to another question. Is there any popular art that you think is actually misogynist? Because if there's something that's enjoyed by millions of people worldwide, some of those people are going to be women which leads to popular art unable to be misogynist.
I don't give a fuck about bayonetta and you don't understand the shit I am saying, i'm done, disengage
The other main contributor to the character is the original VA, who's outed herself as blue lives matter transphobic anti-choice chud. Character doesn't have a lot on her side.
Uh, hey, I'm also a woman and always found Bayonetta sexiest and objectifying. Just like I don't speak for the women who find her empowering, you don't speak for all the women who find her disempowering. Please don't give people the false idea that it's only cis dudes that have a problem with objectified characters.
As enby woman I have always been pressured into being "sexier" and "more feminine" for men. It's given me bad dysphoria all my life. Shit sucks.
i will jump in and say it ain't great for a dude to have made a BDSM witch who wears her hair as clothes and gets naked when she wants to torture her enemies. it's ok if you like it but i think it stinks
She's made of 90% legs and canonically does not wear clothes, she's comically hypersexualized. It feels really sus for me to try to address anyone who ignores her obviously sexualized design
Removed by mod
:jesse-wtf: this is one of the most inappropriate things anyone has ever said on this site, even if it's a joke.
Bayonetta is not a human who can make the decision to embrace sexuality, she is a fictional character who can only do what her (overwhelmingly male) writers and designers determine. They decided that she should be hot because it makes peepees hard. That's the start and end to her design philosophy.
SO true choomfie.
You're a real living person. Bayonetta isn't.
She's the misogynist fantasy of a cis straight guy.
This isn't that hard to understand. It's feminism 101.
https://youtu.be/jko06dA_x88?t=313
I think you need to focus more on what about the depiction in particular is sexist, not the misogyny of the creator. Like, if he made tetris that wouldn't make the game inherently sexist. If he made megaman, then you could read the girl in that game doing nothing as relating to his misogyny, but not being inherently sexist. By that I mean you wouldn't necessarily get a misogynist message playing it nor is it misogynistic in behavior and reading, just in intent. It's also possible for someone who's not a misogynist to make something misogynistic by chance or background culture. What's important to your argument is the game itself. She's obviously sexualized, but is depicting a woman sexually inherently misogyny?
His sexist comments are about how she's depicted in the game. He gives an example of a scene in the game as his way of showing that women see each other as enemies. He created the character so that she's mostly nude when she's fighting because he wants to leer at women. The game is influenced by his misogyny.
She isn't sexual. She doesn't do anything sexual in 1 or 2 and the people that kept saying she was feminist are upset with 3 because she actually exhibits her sexuality in that game and it's a disaster. In 1 & 2 she was sexualized, which was a different thing as I explained already.
Just watch the Lingerie is not Armor video. It's all you need to understand why Bayonetta is sexist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jko06dA_x88
Skip to the 5 minute mark if you only want to watch the Bayonetta section. The video does use term sexuality in a negative context, but it means something different to how we've talked about it here.
We've talked about sexuality in a general sense, while the video focuses on a specific type of "sexuality".
Log off and touch grass. Your argument is right but you didn't need to post tits.
The only truly unsettling aspect about Bayonetta's design is that she has the body proportions of Slenderman
:long-corbyn:
the unsettling thing is that I can't have that :lenin-pensive:
inshallah make me into fem long-corbyn
:sicko-fem:
I personally think that straight men should not be making sexy female characters and that it should only be handled by women and maybe nonbinary folks
I am a woman who always found her to be objectified in a sexist way but never said anything because people will treat you as sex-negative.
A lot of the reason you don't hear many women speak out about this kind of thing is we're shut down.
God forbid we not be reduced to sex dolls, dehumanised and designed for male pleasure. Like a product.
I do not find Bayonetta empowering. Especially as an enby AFAB.