We can all work together to better the world. We were all misguided liberals at first, who wanted the world to be better but didn’t know how. We all now approach our destination in different ways but we can work together.
good social democrats
Ah so the bad moderate fascists are still our enemies then. You've just drawn a slightly different line than the people you're criticizing.
I think a good measurement can be if they are willing to work with other leftists.
Or how fast they’re willing to sell out other leftists to fascists which historically is every time for SD.
Come on guys don't be rude, they will totally not kill yo- I mean US this time. Just go man those barricades while we talk to some nice veterans forming their own units. Nothing to see here, btw which way to Dachau?
Maybe at first
but I'm definitely purging them the first chance I get
Why tho. You trap more flies with honey than vinegar.
Also, bullying is bad.
I know it's just a saying but you actually don't. Little cider vinegar and you'll catch way more flies
Thanks for the link! I’ll give the book a read too. I’m kinda iffy on Engels tbh. I read his criticisms of anarchists and found it so lacking that it kinda soured me on him tbh.
nah :pika-pickaxe: I'm not one for letting what happened to rosa happen again
Also trots just are generally cringe when it comes to politics.
I see a lot of anarchists who distrust MLs for similar reasons, but we both must get past that. History is history. We learn from it and get better. If MLs and anarchists can work together, then so can everyone else.
Trots are wayyy different though. Anarchists and MLs are like political rivals who keep falling in love. Trots are just those bastards who keep turning out to be neocons and armchair only socialists
I guess I’m trying to draw a line in the sand between the “bad” trots and the “good” trots defined by who turns neocon and who’s willing to work with other leftists despite ideological differences.
I think there were some conditions that drove a fraction of a particular generation of trots into neocons around the dissolution of the USSR (bad time for leftists in general obviously). Every current trot I've spoken to has been cool.
Damn maybe we can actually win some of them back to the broader left? It seems like any trot i've seen who still wont cooperate with other communists is doing so deliberately and performatively. But the rest seem to at least mean well and, you know, kinda want communism at some point
If you consider socdems and demsocs on 'the left' you don't understand the underlying philosophical differences that define a 'leftist' from a liberal, and you are just as liable to mistake a right-wing 'populist' as 'on your side' just because they throw a couple of Marxist phrases into their word-salad.
Socdems and demsocs do not have a fundamental understanding or recognition of basic leftist concepts that even most anarchists recognize, such as capital's tendency towards monopoly, that 'freedom' does not mean 'freedom of individual trade', that 'rights' do not mean 'individual property rights', nor that labor is the primary method of political organization and only lever of power that proletarian, peasant, and lumpen alike have.
They do not have the same understanding of history, and therefore are doomed to repeat themselves endlessly. The left may repeat ourselves, but we do so with the full knowledge of the material history that forces that repetition, and not the sheer idealism that says 'Maybe this time the despots will be enlightened!'
Point of order, democratic socialists do, theyre just incredibly naive about how democratic bourgeois democracy is
I agree that having a succdem on the picket line is fine, but they are usually the ones deciding the strategy and wasting the funds on pointless unenforceable electoralism. I do not mistake them for 'leftists', regardless of the amount of voluntarism they engage in. They are at best an entry point into leftist political theory, and at worst a shepard away from more radical theory by being 'sensible' that will turn you in the moment the cops show up.
That being said, I wish I had more time to volunteer at soup kitchens but I am limited to twice a month.
Honestly, thanks for the compliment. I really do try for consistency and sensibility of application in my ideology, but there is little reward in it. Most people get by fine on freewheeling.
If someone is ideologically a social democrat they're too far gone. If someone is a social democrat because capitalism has beaten imagination out of them and they can only imagine a world where there's a robust social safety net then they're still salvageable. At least for myself, I thought that people needed healthcare and housing before I understood the full exploitation of workers under capitalism.
nope, he means succdem, we are arguing it on the trot post
It never ends :agony-deep:
I think I almost enjoy it at this point
Made this post In a hurry so couldn’t include everyone. Edited to make it clearer.
I don’t really know. I think if they are willing to work with others, then it’s a good thing. That’s about it, really.
Our destinations are not the fucking same. A socdem fundamentally is opposed to the goals of communism. This is basic fucking shit, get out of here with the baby-brained "left-unity with non-leftists" shit.
I support anyone who has a truly scientific view of society and history and is interested in solving the problem of capitalism. If they disagree that capitalism is a problem, or want to work withing a paradigm that simply alters capitalism, they are not my friend. If they refuse a scientific view of history then they are not my friend.
I don't need labels, I just need to get to the root of it.
I just need someone who's actually thought about things and sought understand of what is wrong and what needs to be done.
isn't that monarchism when you kill too much of your family?
Yep, but thankfully its one of those things that exists almost exclusively online. Like the patsocs
Depends on how they're raised. Before they get run through the meatgrinder of bourgeois public and private schooling kids probably have better moral compasses than most American adults.
I know that
but we were talking about monarchism socialism
not kids
lol
oops meant to reply to the person that said "minorchism" aka a government run by children
monarcho-socialism is bullshit and anyone floating the idea should be laughed out of the room.
