yup, struggle session time

edit: no one is right, everyone is wrong :^)

edit 2: this post is actually dedicated to Amy Goodman, please stop trying to sound cool grandma

  • sailorfish [she/her]
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    4 years ago

    The natural solution is Ärzt_in :) Can't diss the usage of x when some of us are putting in underscores

    • hopefulmulberry [none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      But you can't even pronounce that. You already have that in Spanish since before I was even born

        • hopefulmulberry [none/use name]
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          4 years ago

          Well you still have the problem which is that it implies you can only be an Ärzt or an Ärztin. So it's inappropriate for enbys. Example

          • sailorfish [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            No? You don't pronounce Ärztin (f) with a glottal stop. So Ärzt_in (nb) with a glottal stop differentiates it and makes it non-binary. I'm not saying this is the most perfect solution that everyone should stick to, but it is a possible solution.

            • hopefulmulberry [none/use name]
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              4 years ago

              Sure it is, it's made from bits from the two gender terminations, so if you can make that case in Spanish you can make that case in German.

              • sailorfish [she/her]
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                4 years ago

                So? Every community reaches their own decisions regarding what they consider acceptable in their own language. German has three grammatical genders (male/female/neuter), in contrast to Spanish, so the starting point is different anyway. Kinyarwandans have 16 different grammatical genders/noun classes, I'm sure they could also make lots of different arguments about our struggles but that's neither here nor there.

                • hopefulmulberry [none/use name]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  Every community reaches their own decisions regarding what they consider acceptable in their own language.

                  I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

                  German has three grammatical genders (male/female/neuter), in contrast to Spanish, so the starting point is different anyway.

                  How?

                  Kinyarwandans have 16 different grammatical genders/noun classes, I’m sure they could also make lots of different arguments about our struggles but that’s neither here nor there.

                  How?

                  • sailorfish [she/her]
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                    4 years ago

                    Every community decides on their own how they'd like to be gender neutral. What works for German may not work for Spanish, what works for Spanish may not work for German. My point is that "you can make that case for Spanish" is irrelevant for German, and vice versa. "Ärzt_in" is what the German speaking community is tending towards finding acceptable.

                    Re neuter making a difference (imo): it's because then not only are you trying to include enbies, you're very consciously trying to avoid making enbies neuter, as that's typically associated with inanimate objects. It's "der Arzt", "die Ärztin", but you probably don't want it to be "das Arzt[nb-suffix]". So you start playing around with gaps, male-female combos, etc. What's the determiner situation in Spanish? Maybe I'm wrong and you have the same problem.