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Should leftists proselytize?
Removed by modI wouldn't have become a leftist without having been "converted" if you want to call it that. It took a large amount of breadtube to even get me to read the communist manifesto, I basically had to be spoonfed das kapital through audiobook format in snippets not too dissimilar in the way a priest would read the bible to their congregation. I think that the message that were trying to get across; abolition of property, lgbtqa+ and bipoc empowerment, and decolonization among other things would benefit from being spread in a manner not to dissimilar from a religion.
My leftism is clearly my belief system, it feels the same hole that religion would have filled. The only problem is that there is no social connection to any of this beyond the parasocial relationships I form with people online, the morally dubious breadtube personalities and maybe the odd polticial rally. What I think we need to do, as leftists, is start standing on street corners preaching the word of Karl Marx, we need to start competing with religions and start marketing ourselves as a superior belief system.
I spent some time in jail and they would regularly have religious speakers come in, there was various types of christian and muslim prayer groups being held, they would always give us something. Having a communist go into county and give everyone some books on basic theory would help create some zealots. I mean you have all this time to think a good amount of people leave having some sort of religious awakening.
I don't see a better way of converting people to leftism than by preaching it in a more religious way to Americans. Take the peoples temple for example. After learning about them they managed to do exactly this, and the way it all ended can be described as nothing other than revolutionary suicide. Jim Jones managed to build a cult from every walk of life in the United States and made a communist utopia for a few years until the feds came knocking and well they had to do it.
Maybe some of you think that we shouldn't proselytize, all I have to say to you is how you became a leftist? It wasn't something you were born as, and most likely it was given to you through propaganda from the internet rather than adopting it after reading theory by yourself or having a cool uncle. We need to start using the same structures that religion do.
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Speaking to people and teaching them marxism is a thing that all communists should be doing at all times.
Instead of doing it on a street corner, we should do it during activities.
Socialist Alternative kind of do what you're suggesting and they seem to have a lot of success with it in the UK and Aus, can't speak for the US one as I've not looked into them, they're Trots though and regularly get called a cult.
The way I see it, the right, and religion, can easily proselytize because they have quick (wrong) answers to specific problems. Don't steal. Abortion bad. Etc. It's effective, but doesn't provide any insight or way to view the world outside of specific instances. It's ideology, but without an overall critical framework.
As leftists, we have a more difficult problem, because all of our "beliefs" are the framework itself, with the specific actions stemming from that. Like, the ability to understand class relationships under capitalism isn't some rule to follow, it's a lens with which to make decisions. I guess a belief is improving material conditions and empowering working class people, but that also isn't a specific rule like "don't do drugs", but it helps with decision making around whether one should do drugs in a specific instance.
So this may not be entirely at odds with what you're suggesting, though.
However, I feel that a strict ideology with rules like religion and rightwing politics have, that don't give room for case by case critical thought is not really leftism, but pure ideology, even if it is towards leftwing ideals. Schniff
Like, things that uphold class hierarchy are bad, but the same activities outside of a capitalist situation may be fine. Like, gun control - the state shouldn't take guns from anyone, because the state is upholding capital. If it is a socialist state, then, yeah, maybe there should be some gun control. I dunno, bad example.
Anyway, now I'm rambling
completely insane, and also definitely a weird troll post. but you know what? you're right.
I'm part of a ML group that prints a bi-weekly newspaper and sells it on the streets. They also make pamphlets and give them out on certain work places
I can't always take part in it because of work, but I'm always very proud of seeing it happen. Last things I took part in were going house to house asking for food donations for the unhoused, giving pamphlets and just talking to people (many asked them if we were from church, btw haha), and giving a speech on woman's health at a very poor neighborhood.
This kind of stuff makes you feel so damn good, which is probably why church attracts so many people eager for action. Some of the talks at reunions is about how we can adapt strategies from evangelical churches
Jim Jones managed to build a cult from every walk of life in the United States and made a communist utopia for a few years until the feds came knocking and well they had to do it.
Are you fucking kidding me
Jim Jones managed to build a cult from every walk of life in the United States and made a communist utopia for a few years until the feds came knocking and well they had to do it.
babe wake up new take dropped
i love how you got people to reply sincerely to this weird ass troll post because they didnt actually read it. or i hope they didnt
People read the topic line, took it to mean proselytize re propagandizing more effectively, which is needed, and carried on. They didn’t read the Jim Jones line. We have an over abundance of sincerity here, see the Incel wrecker who got 100 comments of positive help from last week
that incel wrecker was pretty sus from the post title alone. but regardless, it could have been genuine and its worse to respond with sarcasm/hostility to a genuine post than with sincerity to a wrecker post. ppl were giving p wholesome advice in that thread anyways, even if the poster isnt going to take it to heart
I love the sincerity and I'm happy to risk looking like a fool to offer sincerity to someone trying to troll, on the off chance that it's someone asking in good faith who just isn't communicating well . . . but you've got to read the whole post, just in case they, you know, say Jim Jones is cool or something.
/u/OgdenTO made some amazing points about this that were very well said, but I should also add that this is already an attempted thing in the US that just lead to Jonestown. The People's Church was a religious group with prominent socialist ideas that fell to cult behavior over time and made Kool-aid cool. Studying their development and corruption might lead you in a good direction for why this method doesn't seem to work in practice in the U.S.
Did you read the post itself where they said Jim jones was cool
Are you good at it? Yes.
Are you bad at it? No. This is fine. Plenty of people have a combination of trauma responses and personality traits (these are two different things) that means that they're not going to convince a lot of people. Attempting to "convert" people can both cause that person harm and push the people they were trying to "convert" away.
There's a huge grey area in the middle there. Some people will be more effective in a group or following someone else's lead (Someone below suggested activities, I imagine something like handing out meals to homeless people or whatever). Some people need to be in the right environment.
Given the nature of our politics, you should never do it alone, even if it is touching base with a comrade to gossip about the activity. But spreading out the emotional and cognitive load is very helpful, especially in any kind of "debate" format.
I almost never go for outright "communism good", but I think it's important to push dialectical thinking and highlight contradictions that can't otherwise be resolved. My university presentations usually include some element of that if I can fit it in topically. What are the social and material factors behind the subject? Where does commodification hurt people and nature? What historical failures led to present crises and what parallels can be drawn? If I can tie an idea to a theory then I'll cover the theory and explain why it's important to consider the extra angles it invokes.
The problem with proselytising is that I don't want people to agree with me or follow me. I just want to teach them how to think genuinely critically and interpret new information in new ways. If they can do that, Marxism is just the result they're left with because it's the only philosophical school which analyses things like that. They'll be a more effective Marxist if they come into it somewhat organically.
we need to start competing with religions and start marketing ourselves as a superior belief system.
Yes
I don’t see a better way of converting people to leftism than by preaching it in a more religious way
Yes
We need to start using the same structures that religion do.
Yes.
I have some ideas on this from a couple years of organizing experience, hit me up if you want to discuss them.
