Those who came away from the smokestacks of the crematoria know what they want. We want tanks demolishing city streets. Rebuilding comes later. Our job now is destruction. Who dares deny it to us? We are Frankensteins. We, who came away from the ruins, will show the world. We will snap up the name Jew in every language and uplift it. Words of vengeance will light our way. For as long as one member of this nation remains, we shall not rest.
Source: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Nakam/1k6GEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22For+as+long+as+one+member+of+this+nation+remains,+we+shall+not+rest.+%22&pg=PP107&printsec=frontcover
Fuck around and find out :germany-cool: :stalin-gun-1: :stalin-gun-2:
Some commenters really need to touch grass instead of supporting unironic potential atrocities because they want to feel good flexing on their rightwing relatives during Christmas dinner
The success of the nakam operation would have justified the holocaust to the germans and proven the antisemitic theories of the far right correct.
The Germans already believed the holocaust to be justified and the antisemitic theories of the far right to be correct. They were a people that had just murdered six million jews.
Noooo you can't fight against the people who demonstrably want to eradicate you, you'll just be fueling their hatred!!!!!!!
because we all know the nazi problem was solved immediately at the end of the war
How about you do as the slviets do and actually prosecute them?
if only :sadness:
That still would have roughly tracked with how post-war Germany evolved. Their de-Nazified far right was still kept in power and their popular far-right is as extreme as the US. I don't know how Japanese fascists rhetorically use the American bombings or how much that influences the right-wing there in general, but that'd be the closest parallel I can think of.
The head of Nakam became also one of the architect of the Labour Zionist, he is known for writing how arabs are vermins during a war with the arabs countries
And maybe a Roma state somewhere east-southeast of there.
https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-a-tale-of-revenge
Behind the Bastards did them as their Christmas Good Guy Special. The Nakam were the ones who wanted to do a 1:1 mass murder of Germans for every Jewish victim of the holocaust. Later they went on to be architects of Israeli apartheid so the heroes became the villains regardless, but near the end of part two of that podcast they explore the interesting moral dimensions of the plan. Because the Nakam were going to poison the bread and water supplies of two cities, it was indiscriminate. One holocaust survivor answered the question "Would you have felt bad about that?" with "If you had been there at the end of the war, you wouldn't have said such a thing". The podcast's position is that killing six million Germans wouldn't have made the world a better place, but that what happened to the Nazis wasn't enough and their post-war survival meant every future genocide could be conducted without real consequence. However, they'd put the blame at the feet of the Nazis for those deaths.
I put it in the same realm as a slave rebellion. The slave owners are morally responsible for any acts that could be morally judged. Those acts can't be because the slave has to use every insurgent means possible in an irregular war without allies or guns. Every white face in that area not actively aiding the resistance is either directly involved in the slave trade, indirectly benefits from it, or is poised to legally inherit slaves because of their slaveowner father's choices. If the slaves wholesale purge the county like Haiti did its Big and Little Whites, it's raising the stakes of slavery to an existential level for every other white. You can save some money on labour but the cost of doing so is complete annihilation of everyone who bears responsibility for or benefits from the institution.
I don't know if I'd celebrate the Nakam's retribution had it happened but I'd certainly point to it every time some fascist opens their mouth. They can fuck around all they want but when it comes time for finding out they, their family, and their entire community get proportional blowback. There's now a social incentive for those groups to oppose fascism rather than gamble on it.
I don’t know if I’d celebrate the Nakam’s retribution had it happened but I’d certainly point to it every time some fascist opens their mouth. They can fuck around all they want but when it comes time for finding out they, their family, and their entire community get proportional blowback. There’s now a social incentive for those groups to oppose fascism rather than gamble on it.
Yep, this is pretty much the final word of the "would it have made the world a better place" conversation, in my opinion.
The atom bombings or fire bombings of Japan are the closest equivalent action I can think of. That reconstruction faces the same problem West Germany did, allowing the fascists back into power, but if those had been one-off bombings then I don't know what the propaganda value would be. Like I've never told a fascist "fuck around but you'll get atom bombed for it" or used it rhetorically the same way I do T-34s. The arbitrariness and visual horror of those bombings make them distasteful. If Manchurians had dropped the bomb maybe it'd be more poetic than as retribution for attacking a military base that shouldn't be in Hawaii anyway.
but sanctions are evil because they hurt the lower classes indiscriminately, amirite guys
Check out Daniel Kahn and the Painted Bird’s song of the same name. Good summary that hits the major points, with a catchy tune to boot.
So Nakam was all disbanded On Palestina's shore they landed And Abba Kovner and his crew Became like many other Jews
They put aside their rage and hate And worked to build a Jewish state With Jewish towns and Jewish farms Jewish guns and nuclear arms
Shaun did a good video arguing against it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCRTgtpC-Go
Strategically it didn't achieve anything and the planned invasion likely wouldn't have had to happen. The Soviets were pushing in and their reconstruction, probably akin to East Germany, would be better than the one-party right wing state that the US installed. The shock of it hasn't deterred anything either, apart from not using nuclear weapons even if we still stockpile them. If the Manhattan Project had succeeded in time for the Doolittle raid then I think there would be a good case for their usage but by August 1945 they're just kind of spectacle without gain.
The shock of it hasn’t deterred anything either, apart from not using nuclear weapons even if we still stockpile them.
Yeah the taboo against using nuclear weapons didn't happen instantly. The US was totally willing to use them for several years after WW2.
Yeah that's the point? Murder in revenge is still murder. Murder in self defense is far more justifiable.
just redivide the germans on the old lines but also socialist---Pomeranian DR, Saxon DR, maybe under a 'UGDR' USSR-ish umbrella
