If you lock a privileged person up with their thoughts and make them pray really hard they'll realize it is in there self interest to exist in their privileged position in a way that maintains the status quo
Aka prisons before slavery was abolished
Hey, people are still cool with slavery if you call the slaves criminals, and also arresting wage laborers is cheaper(locally, it has a parasitic effect on production) than having a population of self sustaining slaves or importing slaves from somewhere
Hey, people are still cool with pretty overt eugenics if you position the group you want to reduce the population of criminals
Tbf there is also the third case: We’ve determined you are too dangerous to be a part of the general population and need to be separated. Those people should be given a high quality of life within whatever facility we have to keep them in. Those are also a super small portion of criminals
If you throw them in solitary that's a ridiculous amount of violence,
Otherwise they will still be interacting with people who would be subject to violence
It might make people within the general population feel safer, but on the other hand, the people who have hurt me in my life no longer exist in my life. It still scares me knowing that society is a formatted in a way that will allow that violence to happen to me again, if people choose to.
And regardless of whether those "dangerous people" were sent to prison after harming me, I would still be harmed.
To feel safe we need to actually create conditions of safety.
Absolutely. And those things also need to happen. But there is some very small portion of people, your Jeffrey Dahmer types, or your serial r***ists, who cannot be allowed in general society. I’m not saying they should be put in solitary, which should obviously be banned bc it’s fucking torture, but a “prison” where they can have a high quality of life with strong supervision to protect others inside and separation to protect those outside.
This doesn't make any sense. What societal conditions lead to rape?
Part of the thing that is so humiliating is that theyre not that dangerous
This is also pretty messed up to say. Who are you to say a rapist isn't that dangerous?
they can do what they want to do because other people who youre surrounded by are cool with what they’re doing in a very real sense, despite their theoretical moral objections to rape
I guess there are some scenarios where a SA survivor is surrounded be people that let it happen, but that's just not the reality for all survivors. They are genuinely in danger and they are often alone.
I'm 100% in agreement that serial rapists should not be around society.
This doesn’t make any sense. What societal conditions lead to rape?
All the unjust hierarchies?
This is also pretty messed up to say. Who are you to say a rapist isn’t that dangerous?
Someone who is operating based on personal experience and a large sample size. I am making generalizations. The uncertainty of the amount of danger present and how that affects people we can get into if you want
I guess there are some scenarios where a SA survivor is surrounded be people that let it happen, but that’s just not the reality for all survivors. They are genuinely in danger and they are often alone.
You are missing my point. Rape culture, or whatever you want to call it, creates the space for rapists to operate in. Rape culture isn't just some amorphous blob in the cosmos. It is also very local, and very concrete, and can be fought.
It can be fought, but that doesn't mean rape will completely stop. I'm too pessimistic to believe that. In the (hopefully) rare situations in the future where a person does it more than once, they need to be stopped from interacting with society at a certain point.
It can be fought, but that doesn’t mean rape will completely stop.
I agree, I just think reducing the power structures that enable rape on a mass scale is more productive than punishing individuals and that prisons have repeatedly failed as a rehabilitative institution.
You can't be stopped from interacting with society except through dying. Prisons still exist within society. Prison rape happens ridiculously frequently.
I agree that it's more productive and should be the immediate focus, but in specific circumstances it's not rehabilitation that's failing someone. We're not even attempting rehabilitation now though, so that will always be important to implement.
Prisons are based on two main ideas:
Aka prisons before slavery was abolished
Hey, people are still cool with pretty overt eugenics if you position the group you want to reduce the population of criminals
Tbf there is also the third case: We’ve determined you are too dangerous to be a part of the general population and need to be separated. Those people should be given a high quality of life within whatever facility we have to keep them in. Those are also a super small portion of criminals
That doesn't actually fix the problem.
If you throw them in solitary that's a ridiculous amount of violence,
Otherwise they will still be interacting with people who would be subject to violence
It might make people within the general population feel safer, but on the other hand, the people who have hurt me in my life no longer exist in my life. It still scares me knowing that society is a formatted in a way that will allow that violence to happen to me again, if people choose to.
And regardless of whether those "dangerous people" were sent to prison after harming me, I would still be harmed.
To feel safe we need to actually create conditions of safety.
Absolutely. And those things also need to happen. But there is some very small portion of people, your Jeffrey Dahmer types, or your serial r***ists, who cannot be allowed in general society. I’m not saying they should be put in solitary, which should obviously be banned bc it’s fucking torture, but a “prison” where they can have a high quality of life with strong supervision to protect others inside and separation to protect those outside.
Removed by mod
This doesn't make any sense. What societal conditions lead to rape?
This is also pretty messed up to say. Who are you to say a rapist isn't that dangerous?
I guess there are some scenarios where a SA survivor is surrounded be people that let it happen, but that's just not the reality for all survivors. They are genuinely in danger and they are often alone.
I'm 100% in agreement that serial rapists should not be around society.
All the unjust hierarchies?
Someone who is operating based on personal experience and a large sample size. I am making generalizations. The uncertainty of the amount of danger present and how that affects people we can get into if you want
You are missing my point. Rape culture, or whatever you want to call it, creates the space for rapists to operate in. Rape culture isn't just some amorphous blob in the cosmos. It is also very local, and very concrete, and can be fought.
It can be fought, but that doesn't mean rape will completely stop. I'm too pessimistic to believe that. In the (hopefully) rare situations in the future where a person does it more than once, they need to be stopped from interacting with society at a certain point.
I agree, I just think reducing the power structures that enable rape on a mass scale is more productive than punishing individuals and that prisons have repeatedly failed as a rehabilitative institution.
You can't be stopped from interacting with society except through dying. Prisons still exist within society. Prison rape happens ridiculously frequently.
I agree that it's more productive and should be the immediate focus, but in specific circumstances it's not rehabilitation that's failing someone. We're not even attempting rehabilitation now though, so that will always be important to implement.