I sort of figured this balance out on my own, I just have to remember to look at their face every so often and keep myself laser-focused on whatever it is we're supposed to be talking about
it is necessary to engage in The Rituals no matter how fucking boring and tedious they are. Call and response, small talk as a preamble to serious topics, near-mandatory exchange of pleasantries. It's a semi-rigid structure that I once thought came across as artificial due to the structure, and not my delivery of it, and thus disregarded for a time. Kind of makes me think of being in church as a kid, now that I think of it.
Like I'm aware of how weird and overwrought this thinking would seem to an NT but at the same time how the fuck do people go around not examining things they use every day, like conversations, even once? They don't see how boring it can be to use the same structure for every conversation and cover the same old topics over and over again, or how boredom can be painful for ADHD folks and lead to odd tendencies of avoidance.
Wait we were talking about eye contact :side-eye-2: :side-eye-1:
No no, this is all correct. One thing I've noticed is that some non-NT people think this is all intuitive and natural. Some is, but NT people also think these structures are artificial and ritualised, they just like it and are used to it. Societal rituals work to make NT people not have meltdowns. You can see this because when they break down in a crisis NT people tend to freeze up while non-NT people often keep functioning to some extent.
Small talk, for instance, makes people feel safe, like breaking bread in a hosts house used to. Coming in immediately with the serious topic is seen as a desperate emergency and indicates shit has hit the fan.
What is intuitive and natural for them, from my perspective, is paying attention to and noticing and being in tune with the rhythms of these things. But you pointing out that they like them honestly hasn't crossed my mind as often as it should. That creates a natural reinforcement that makes it easier for them to learn, as their brains don't zoom around in constant search of the biggest source of dopamine. They fall into the natural rhythms of it with a bit more ease than ADHD or autistic folks. Same for people with depression and anxiety, lenses which discolor everything that passes through them and turns them from behavioral guideposts into shrieking demons that make it so you can never actually trust your own emotions completely. Fun times.
I fully understand the point of small talk now. It is not at all about exchanging information, it's a ritual of social bonding. Feeling out the other's personality and seeking harmony through an established ritual, just one which happens to get old quickly for people like me. I had to learn to focus on the unspoken parts and tell my brain to shut the fuck up for a second so I could actually listen, no matter how boring it is, and formulate an equally boring response. I had to pay a professional leading group social skills coaching to learn that properly, as the way you actually learn it is not by going down rabbit holes on the Internet, but by talking to other people in a loosely-guided, welcoming, and forgiving environment. One you really can't expect random strangers to provide for you.
Yeah, I was never diagnosed so who knows what the fuck is wrong with me (likely some modest form of AuDHD I guess) but acting helped, alot.
Especially pre 20th century acting where the point was less being the character and more communicating the character. The movements and the posture and the colouring of words for affect.
And as you mentioned a place where you can fail safely.
Except when you do the same it's wrong
The appropriate amount is somewhere in between and no they won't tell you where exactly
2 to 5 seconds, followed by a rapid shift away, preferably to some object you're talking about, according to my acting classes.
I sort of figured this balance out on my own, I just have to remember to look at their face every so often and keep myself laser-focused on whatever it is we're supposed to be talking about
it is necessary to engage in The Rituals no matter how fucking boring and tedious they are. Call and response, small talk as a preamble to serious topics, near-mandatory exchange of pleasantries. It's a semi-rigid structure that I once thought came across as artificial due to the structure, and not my delivery of it, and thus disregarded for a time. Kind of makes me think of being in church as a kid, now that I think of it.
Like I'm aware of how weird and overwrought this thinking would seem to an NT but at the same time how the fuck do people go around not examining things they use every day, like conversations, even once? They don't see how boring it can be to use the same structure for every conversation and cover the same old topics over and over again, or how boredom can be painful for ADHD folks and lead to odd tendencies of avoidance.
Wait we were talking about eye contact :side-eye-2: :side-eye-1:
No no, this is all correct. One thing I've noticed is that some non-NT people think this is all intuitive and natural. Some is, but NT people also think these structures are artificial and ritualised, they just like it and are used to it. Societal rituals work to make NT people not have meltdowns. You can see this because when they break down in a crisis NT people tend to freeze up while non-NT people often keep functioning to some extent.
Small talk, for instance, makes people feel safe, like breaking bread in a hosts house used to. Coming in immediately with the serious topic is seen as a desperate emergency and indicates shit has hit the fan.
What is intuitive and natural for them, from my perspective, is paying attention to and noticing and being in tune with the rhythms of these things. But you pointing out that they like them honestly hasn't crossed my mind as often as it should. That creates a natural reinforcement that makes it easier for them to learn, as their brains don't zoom around in constant search of the biggest source of dopamine. They fall into the natural rhythms of it with a bit more ease than ADHD or autistic folks. Same for people with depression and anxiety, lenses which discolor everything that passes through them and turns them from behavioral guideposts into shrieking demons that make it so you can never actually trust your own emotions completely. Fun times.
I fully understand the point of small talk now. It is not at all about exchanging information, it's a ritual of social bonding. Feeling out the other's personality and seeking harmony through an established ritual, just one which happens to get old quickly for people like me. I had to learn to focus on the unspoken parts and tell my brain to shut the fuck up for a second so I could actually listen, no matter how boring it is, and formulate an equally boring response. I had to pay a professional leading group social skills coaching to learn that properly, as the way you actually learn it is not by going down rabbit holes on the Internet, but by talking to other people in a loosely-guided, welcoming, and forgiving environment. One you really can't expect random strangers to provide for you.
Yeah, I was never diagnosed so who knows what the fuck is wrong with me (likely some modest form of AuDHD I guess) but acting helped, alot.
Especially pre 20th century acting where the point was less being the character and more communicating the character. The movements and the posture and the colouring of words for affect.
And as you mentioned a place where you can fail safely.
There's a flipside to this one though, they're completely incapable of making eye contact correctly with cats for some reason
I usually use casual agreement/affirmation as an excuse to stare off wistfully